Depraved or deprived: What lies behind these riots, and why aren't they happening in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

[Solopower]

I've been reading the threads on the riots and I wondered if we needed one on the causes.

People's ideas seem to range from thinking the rioters are just opportunistic criminals to socially and culturally disadvantaged youngsters.

But why isn't there any rioting in Scotland, for example, where there are pockets of extreme social deprivation?

Zoe Williams' article on the psychology of looting is worth reading, imo:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting?CMP=twt_gu

That's interesting aitch, wrt Scottish non-rioting. I think it's probably true to say that Scottish representation in the armed forces is disproportionate to Scottish share of the UK population. Can't find any figures anywhere though.

Bejezus, next thing you know I'll be saying 'bring back National Service'.

historically military a good route out poverty and career for disadvantaged scots

My dh (Scottish) joined the forces because that was the only job he could get. And that was in the late 70s before the mass unemployment of the early 80s

true, and the same with black people in america. but it's really conscription that culls the poor, though, and we haven't had that since ww2. i do wonder if someone might mention national service before too long, tbh.

probably only fr men though.accompanied by a cut and paste of male tyranny.

scottishmummy Fri 12-Aug-11 13:14:27
-salient point may be has female participation and proclivity in disturbance and crime increased? as you note there was not an absence or non representation of women in 80's riots "you wouldn't have seen girls/women joining in with the violence in such numbers" just you wonder has it increased-

Maybe because this "Rioting" had a SHOPPING element to it?

I also think the gender question is a side issue but an interesting one.

I think the reason riots only occurred in England is because it is a different country with a specific set of issues relating to it's young urban

I think in 'that London' you assume everything that happens has the same resonance everywhere when in fact in Scotland you are rather detached from the situation

you got in nailed.top of criminology-r-us class and modules in i telt ye so
and i see the men didnt steal any hoovers,only tellies to watch.typical

when did this become a 'you scots' vs english thing? 'that London'?

i'm offski.

you are crabbit aitch

Yes, Norman. In fact, I wonder whether London in particular needs to perhaps look at other more similar cities, for example New York, for solutions/causes, rather than to Scotland. It seems to perhaps have more in common with other 'mega-cities' than with other UK cities in some ways.

agree ldn is a world city,not like rest of uk.distinctive financial,social infrastructure and culture

Aitch do you have a problem with me? I only referred to 'thatlondon' as I sat next to a scouser at work (inlondon) and we thought it funny. It's a Harry Enfield sketch about scousers.

I was pointing out how London centric the media are.

And yes good point about New York - I was reading a piece about how they tackle urban unrest in major cities in the states -they focus on community leadership

no problem at all, but best not to reference private jokes on a personal forum if you want to be clear, because it was not.

Well i stand corrected then.

aitch you are crabbit today.

It's Friday, woman. And school's back next week. And it's stopped raining.

I've been wondering whether my teenage boys would ever engage in opportunistic looting. The reason I think they wouldn't, even if tempted, would be that they would know we would march them and their loot to the police station or back to the shop it had come from. They would know we wouldn't cover for them. I guess a lot of the kids involved in the looting didn't have that feeling about their parents.

As far as I could see looking at the papers at the petrol station today, the news is full of stories of rioters being marched down to the police station by their parents e.g.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8696197/London-riots-the-2012-Olympics-ambassador-turned-in-by-her-mother.html

I suspect this might be a hook for a story though, as midnight express says, rather than a widespread phenomenon though.

In a related story, I may have been living under a rock, but I didn't even realise that there had been riots in Vancouver 2 months ago

ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/uk-parents-turn-teen-rioter-echoing-vancouver-story-185436652.html

before aitch blows a gasket, I will back her up- she is right! The weather was pretty mild by Scottish standards on the "riot nights". So there

think there is a slight difference between those who went out with the purpose of rioting and looting and those passing by as it happened who stupidly got carried away and helped themselves. A rampaging crowd can be a powerful thing.

I know the letter to David Cameron's parents has been posted before, and I'm aware it should be parent - but as the eviction applications go before the court the question of parental responsibility for children's behaviour seems a timely one. nathanieltapley.com/blog/

I think the eviction plan is appalling. I pay my taxes so people can have a roof over their heads among many other things. I do not pay them to support politicians getting new kitchens, cleaning moats or giving their offspring summer jobs.