ATOS Medical

[Empusa]

Link here

A report from the select committee on work and pensions has been published about welfare reform. Specifically work capability assessments (WCA) as they move people on to ESA from income support.

My personal experience is that the WCA is a farce, and although they are reporting huge numbers of people being deemed "fit for work", a huge amount of those are later overturned at tribunal.

Finally this awful practice of taking people off benefits when their health isn't enough that they can work is being taken notice of.

But what will they do about it?

For all of those who I'm sure will come on and tell us about their friend of a friend who is claiming fraudulently, that's a different issue.

We are talking about those who are genuinely disabled who are finding themselves not only without financial support, but also under suspicion. In my own experience the whole process took over 6 months.

That's 6 months of stress on top of the daily stress of disability. Stress and fear.

Surely we all agree that the most vulnerable in society should be protected? Not treated like criminals?

There's a breakdown of the figures by Mind here.

And here is a letter from the Chair of the Commons Work and Pensions to the Minister for Employment.

As well as the figures though, I think more understanding of what 'fit to work' might mean.

Take an example from today - I learned that a 40+ year old woman I worked with many years ago, who is on the autistic spectrum, has held down a job for 1 year, it is an office-based role, part time, fairly simple work. Anything more complex she would not be able to cope with.

She has had several years (maybe 5+) of employment support. It has taken many of those years getting her anywhere near employment. I was so pleased to hear today that she has held down a paid job for 1 year now.

To me, this is a great achievement. Could she have got this job straight out of school? Definitely no. Could she have got this job a few years ago? No. But she has it now. Can she live independently on it? No. So she will still need support. She has no choice, her autism is moderate-severe and is unlikely to change. But she still deserves the quality of life that DLA and other benefits will give her. If she had not found her current employer, who has made many adjustments to accommodate her needs, she may still be on IB or ESA. She's not a criminal, fgs, she was born with a condition.

Those people who whinge about benefits cheats, would they want to swap places with her?

Exactly, Tigerseye. They wouldn't want to swap places. The systems are, more or less, intelligently designed and they do work when they get the chance. Benefits hysteria, with its demonisation of the less-able, makes those chances even slimmer than they were.

It's appalling to see Cameron wielding the scrounger stick when he, more than anyone, has access to the real facts. It's just such a load of cynical figure-massaging: sheer political manoeuvring at the cost of real lives; real voters' lives.

My Mind worker advised me not to lodge an ESA appeal, because of the anxiety it causes (I did suffer; it's why I never managed to submit my case to the tribunal.) She says the objective is to get claimants off ESA and on to JSA. It's cheaper and means the figures can be blamed on employers and the economy, rather than admitting the nation won't care for its sick. If I'd followed her advice and rolled over onto JSA, I'd have applied for lots of jobs that won't go to a middle-aged sufferer from chronic fatigue and depression. When I was told to go to courses and work experience programs, I'd have behaved unreliably because I can't help it. Then I'd have been compelled to see my GP for repeated explanatory sick notes.

It's insane.

" When I was told to go to courses and work experience programs, I'd have behaved unreliably because I can't help it. "

Yes, that's my big fear as well. It's not that the money's lower on JSA (tho it is), it's that I won't be well enough to do the mandatory re-education courses and unpaid "work experience", and will then be punished financially.

FFS, if I were well enough to work I'd be working in a real job, for real money. With my skill-set I'd expect to earn a living self-employed, even in the current economic climate. It's just the sitting upright and stringing two sentences together that's the leetle teeny problem. (Can MN as typing less tiring than speaking, and can rest between posts.)

I'm one of the lucky ones, because family have promised to underwrite me - degrading tho it would be to accept this rather than be an equal-tho-poor family member. But I'm well aware others don't have that luxury, and the fear is paralysing.

"When I was told to go to courses and work experience programs, I'd have behaved unreliably because I can't help it."

Same here.

Much as it's easier for people to believe that the disabled just give up work at the drop of a hat. Many of us have tried to work through it. I was doing temp work when my problems started, and because I couldn't tell them in advance when I would have a bad day they stopped giving me work.

Unfortunately the work experience I do have is for jobs that I can't physically manage anymore. :(

Disability tests 'sending sick and disabled back to work' - Telegraph 12:00AM BST 30 Jul 2012

Please - send in your views and experiences to Professor Harrington's review.

Here

Check out the thread called Dispatches and Panorama. These shows are both covering this issue tonight.

The thing about being assessed as 'fit for work' by ATOS is that you get a situation like mine, where I have been assessed as fit for work by ATOS, but my Neurologist will NOT sign me as fit for FT work, only for an absolute MAXIMUM of 16 hrs a week.

Which is not enough for me to be able to claim JSA, as you have to 'be available for, and seeking FT employment.'

So you get people like me, still too disabled for FT work, still unable to claim JSA as we don't fulfil the criteria of seeking FT work, yet not disabled enough to get ESA.

THAT is what the figure of 36% dropping out of the system covers - those with GENUINE disabilities, that prevent them from undertaking FT work, but are capable of doing between 1 hr/wk and 20 hrs/wk work, but not FT. We 'drop out if the system' because we are not allowed to claim EITHER JSA OR ESA. Leaving us with NO INCOME APART FROM THST WHICH WE CAN EARN, WHICH IS LIMITED BY OUR DISABILITY.

How can ANYONE justify the answer of 'lack of funds' as a way of treating people with GENUINE disabilities like this.

You want to know where the 36% of people that 'drop out' of the system go? Well, there's your answer. That's 36% of ALL people who have tried to claim ESA on transfer from IB.

In my own case, under IB, after undergoing a medical carried out by PROPER MEDICALLY TRAINED STAFF, I was getting severe disablement allowance. Now, after an ATOS assessment using untrained clerical staff, I am apparently 'fit for work'. Funny how it is that I had the same disability yet have been treated entirely differently under the two systems...

Sorry have not had time to read all 60 posts as I am trying to sort out daughter's appeal.

Daughter 27 Downs Syndrome complex congenital heart defect pacemaker also has poorly controlled asthma and Hypothyroidism. (also only 4' 2" tall) Gets breathless and has drop attacks when pacemaker does not kick in.

Cardiologist, GP, support worker and SW all state she would not be able to work. Cardiologist also states to work would be detrimental to her health. Had face to face interview daughter spoke 12 single words

Letter from DWP arrives stating she is in the WRAG so monthly interviews to get her into work, write CV (she can barely write FFS) and how she can get a job

Contact DWP and requested copy of medical/interview. It states 3 times that she is unfit to work Can the people who make the final judgements read or do they not care a toss.

I have appealed!!

2old thats bloody disgusting appalling treatment.
Christ almighty they really dont give a shit do they? I saw somewhere on twitter that they are still trying to deny that the Atos contract is performance related.
After Chris Graylings bare faced lies on Channel 4 news about the Work Programme though im not surprised at all.

And I have got 2 more on IB

Oh bloody hell so you have to go through this farce TWICE more.

Fucking hell, and I thought MY life was stressful dealing with the shower of incompetent nincompoops that make up ATOS!

Do you think I could get ESA for stress? Oh bugger I'm too old!!
Seriously though it is truly shambolic and cruel.

My biggest concern about this is the way people quote the figure - however many % it is - of people who don't appeal, and assume that these must all be people who don't have a case for appeal.

I wonder how many of them are in fact not appealing because they are so fragile that they cannot face it - knowing that even if they win their appeal, the next letter from ATOS summoning them for another test will be along soon.

This system is so corrupt.

There are so many conditions that do not get better - Parkinsons's disease, MND, Multiple Sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia - this list is by no means exhaustive. And actually, a lot of people who have this condition would like to work - but within the framework of what they are able to do from day to day. And what do we do? Stop funding for the organisations (mainly charitable) who can actually offer this.

I completely understand that it would be a nightmare for an employer to have an employee with a fluctuating condition of this kind - this is why people with long-term degenerative conditions and permanent disabilities cannot find work.

Niceguy has it right - the poor will suffer. I'm just amazed at the number of people who seem to think that is ok.

Add epilepsy to that list of fluctuating conditions. I actually have TWO fluctuating conditions, epilepsy and fibro. Not much help when you tell an employer...

Blatant admission that they don't give points for mobility issues if they could use a theoretical wheelchair that they DON'T HAVE.

Nothing about variable conditions or neurological conditions or Autism or MH issues yet...

Targets now - they can't find more than 12/13% eligible for the support group. So much for no targets...

So Atos claim not to have any targets on finding people fit for work, yet that is just twisting the truth, that no more than 12/13 can be found eligible for the support group, so they DO have targets to follow, just not the one that they are denying!!

And even the ATOS trainer admits that the job of an ATOS assessor is 'toxic'.

Isn't Chris Greyling an oily git?

BBC one far more sympathetic than I thought it would be.

I'd just like to point out that the figures for ESA released by the DWP are for all ESA claims NOT just the IB to ESA migrants. That means that the drop out rate includes people who were either not entitled to sick pay so have to claim ESA to survive ie. someone on JSA who breaks their leg or people who are still sick passed their statutory sick pay, still have a job to go back to but still need some form of income to survive. If anyone gets better within 13 weeks, which is a long time to be sick for then they are considered to have 'dropped out'.

The actual figures for the migrants will be much higher due to the fact that everyone on IB has already been tested and found to be sick, just a different test. This is why the work programme is suffering and providers are going bust, people on IB in the main are very very disabled/sick and most are very far from the workplace even if they are getting put into the WRAG providers are finding they are too ill to be helped to work and are tearing their hair out as they can't make money from the unemployable. This is where the interesting gap opens up, under ESA you can be 'fit for work' but unemployable even if you are granted the benefit.

I'm lucky - for reasons I will probably never find out I was illigally moved from IB to ESA without a medical test. I fit the criteria by a mile (can't mobilise unaided at all, can't transfer between two seated positions without assistance) but I should still have seen an assessor according to the legislation. There is still time though, I am to be reassessed this Febuary. I would have no problem with it at all IF I knew the assessor would tell the truth and that it wouldn't just be a question of not only ticking a computer test, and that the idea wasn't to 'catch me out'. Why do I have to know that the answer to 'Do you watch films' is not yes (becasue I do) but 'Only in bed, propped up with lots of cushions and I need to change position often, I cannot do it without pain'. Why can't I just be asked how I manage during the day, what and how I sit, why some crap about whether I can watch a film or Eastenders?

A pretty good friend of mine with the same disability went to her assessment using two walking sticks and wearing a teddy backpack. She scored 2 points (you need 15) the assessor was taking so little notice he stated she could walk unaided but she got two mental health points because she was carrying two teddies - one in each hand.