Working mums: new study finds going out to work has no harmful effect on small children

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. We've just had the heads-up on this study suggesting that there are no significant detrimental effects on a child's social or emotional development if her or his mother works during her or his early years.

In fact, young girls may even gain from being in a household where their mother works, say researchers at University College London, in a UK-wide project funded by the Economic and Social Research Council.

These findings run counter to those of some previous studies, which have suggested that children whose mother works in the first year of their life may be more prone to bad behaviour, or even to be more overweight.

What do you think? Do the new findings surprise you? Or confirm what you already knew? Do tell...

I think the best thing to do is not judge eachother for the choices we have made. It's all too easy to judge people doing the opposite in an attempt to justify your own choices - particularly if you are having a hard time justifying them to yourself. I'm pretty sure many SAHMs beat themselves up for feeling like they may have made the wrong decision by giving up their financial independence and their job or for just finding 24 hour childcare really difficult and just as many WOHMs worry that they may not be doing what is best for their kids. The worst thing we can do is turn on eachother!

this one of the most oft discussed topics on mn (apart from feeding) as for a lot of us it has resonance.no.this isn't anyone turning on anyone. but nor can you in all honestly plead for no disagreements moratorium

no, but I sense from some of the recent posts that some of the sahms might be feeling less than happy with the choices they have made and so they are trying to justify them to themselves which is never a good thing imo.

Come on, addressbook! You said: "I refuse to be a wage slave to the capitalist bullshit that our culture is built on." Scottish and others pointed out that your argument is fatally flawed and you have not achieved an opt out to a non-capitalist nirvana. You have merely organised your family system into a one wage slave model instead of a two wage slave model. You are lucky that you are bourgeois enough to have a choice in the matter., as custardo has pointed out.

Scottish mummy- you may subscribe to the post modern sensibility that has so infiltrated the popular psyche that people are not even aware of its pervasive influence.Every view is equal- whatever you judge to be best is best blah blah blah.I don't.
I happen to think that there is indeed, when it comes to young children, an optimum way of raising them.I'm influenced by many books that i have read and my own experience of being mothered, and my experience of working in a childcare setting where 90% of the workers really did not have any attachment to doing the best job of helping the pre schoolers in their care.I saw how the children with the one member of staff, who did really care, flourished and the looks on the faces of some of the other kids who were just not getting that quality of input.It is a shame more staff were not like that woman but the truth is that for many it really is just a job not a vocation.It is this dynamic that I would prefer my child not to be exposed to because like all parents I want to give him the best and I don't think that kind of care is the best.

I made a decision back then that if I could possibly avoid putting my child in that setting then I would.Of course no physical harm is going to come to a child in that kind of apathetic, indifferent, disengaged dynamic but let us not pretend that all nurseries are glowing centres of development where children thrive.They are places of work for people and the workers will mainly not provide the kind of dynamic that many parents wish for their child.

If they have to be used they have to be used( although I would choose a quality childminder any day after my experiences.It is clearly better than being down the pit as children of the past may have been but let us not fool ourselves that our children are 'spoilt' being looked after by someone who is just not invested in them in the way you are as a parent.

We all have judgements about how people do things.Let us not pretend otherwise.I am understanding of the fact people have to find child care and therefore such compromises are accepted by many through necessity.

It is this dreadful self delusion that it is the best for the child that I cannot help but find irksome and the jumping on studies that help support it.
Use the daycare if you have to.Find the best one that you can find but don't kid yourself your ds or dd is better off there than being looked after one to one by someone invested in their development-not necessarily mum but someone who genuinely cares for them beyond the mere duties stipulated by their job description.

i think it's quite easy to find a study to back up what ever you want to believe top be honest! I'm sure the government would be particularly promote this study as they seem to want all women back at work.

Personally I think nurseries are great for pre school aged toddlers who are about to make the school move. It's also the best for children who have very poor quality child rearing at home due to drugs, violence, neglect etc. It's best for mums who find motherhood too stressful or have to work.

I believe being with a good SAHP who provides a safe and loving environment is the absolute best environment for a baby/toddler. Lot's of studies have proven this time after time.

Part of the report talks about how the research was gathered - ie - through parents. I think a far more reliable way to collect information would have been in the reception year at school, looking at behaviour and then asking if children had previously been in nurseries/stayed at home. As an ex preschool worker I have found the nursery children to be more aggressive and questioning of authority.

I think as parents we all have to do what we can just to get by - SAH or work or a mix of both. It's sad that there if often little choice these days

really? I think the government would much prefer to have all mothers of pre-school children back in the home and relying on one wage.

"i think it's quite easy to find a study to back up what ever you want to believe top be honest! "

"Lot's of studies have proven this time after time."

you said it

"I have found the nursery children to be more aggressive and questioning of authority."

Have you done a study on this? how big was your study group? Perhaps all kids with SAHPs are more passive and unquestioning?

"WTF?! How on earth is it being a good role model to your daughter to teach her that she should sacrifice herself for her family?"

Bang on. 100% correct. I don't think it is being a good role model at all to teach your children that as a mother you should sacrifice your wishes, your career, your ambitions for your family. Bloody hell. We need more women opting in to the workforce not opting out. This is NOT a good thing to teach young women.

Sorry but I am in a mood today and I am tired of this whole thing that women need to make all the bloody sacrifices and lose their ambitions and their careers. What about god damn men? I wasn't even prepared to sacrifice my last name when I got married, and I am certainly not prepared to sacrifice my career or ambitions because I have a son.

and p.s. - scottish mummy and peppapigs - I think I may love both of you! Totally agree with your arguments on here. Totally.

I think we should all have ambitions I agree Emmy. My ambition was to take a break from my career and be with my children while they were small - then return properly to work (I only work half a day a week at the mo). Being a stay at home parent is only for a few years and it's something i want to do for my children. Being a SAHP is seen as unimportant by many sadly - which is a shame. I agree it's not the only way to parent though. You can always find a study to back up what you believe is best ..

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-444676/Children-nurseries-likely-aggressive-disobedient.html

Come on, we all sit in our own camps and have to believe what we're doing is best. Whatever our choice. The best thing to do is not talk about it as even saying that you think a child is more stimulated at nursery is saying that children at home aren't as stimulated, neither of which is an absolute. In fact there are no absolutes, I can't get my head around putting a child that can't communicate in childcare but woop di doo I don't have to and I imagine some parents would rather chew there own arm off or have a roof over their heads than stay at home....

I shall be guiding my children, moreso my daughter, to choose a career that affords time off for children should they desire. And not be fooled that women have all the choices in the world.

Does anyone actually know a thing about what kind of toddler behaviour is likely to result in a happy and successful adult? You can measure things like the frequency of toddler tantrums or the number of times mummy's authority is questioned- but do we any idea how that equates with adult behaviour?

Rather interested in this as I was, by all accounts, the toddler from hell. 45 years later I am an academic, which basically means I get paid to question authority and not take no for an answer- for one in my position it is a highly desirable character trait. But if I had been included in any survey on toddler behaviour, I am sure I would have been in there as a warning example.

As always it depends on the child, the family circumstances and the childcare. Generalisation doesn't help - it's a bloody awful decision to make but if you are lucky enough to be in a position where you can make a decision ( rather than forced by circumstance) then the only thing is to make a decision based on you and your child , some flourish at home, others in nursery... Every child is different and we mustn't forget that.
My DS has been in FT nursery since he was 7mths, he is loving, sociable, shares things and is polite yet boisterous (he's 3 so I would expect nothing less) he has great personal relationships with his carers and his friends, gets plenty of fresh air, crafts, cookery, reading and singing. They go on trips and have loads of activities. He also gets a well rounded and great role model for a mother ( and he loves that I work with trains and diggers) .
I physically couldn't cope with a rambunctious DS 24/7 due to my physical disabilities but we do have quality time in the evenings, weekends and holidays, we wouldn't have such a great time if I had him all the time as I'd be in so much pain that we'd rarely do more than sit in the house. So my personal circumstances say nursery is good and it works for us, wouldn't like to comment on anybody elses circumstances as frankly it's none if my business

'you dont work and are wholly dependent upon your partner wage'

My partner is dependant on me for childcare as much as I am on his wage. We all depend on people..employers, parents etc. It's not always a scary thing. As has been said, working mothers may be just as dependant if they need both wages to pay the bills.

'I shall be guiding my children, moreso my daughter, to choose a career that affords time off for children should they desire. And not be fooled that women have all the choices in the world.' me too Posie

"WTF?! How on earth is it being a good role model to your daughter to teach her that she should sacrifice herself for her family? IMO, family is all about compromise. None of us make any more of a sacrifice than the other, and that includes the children. Sometimes they win, sometimes I win, sometimes DH wins. I will not teach my daughters that they are worth any less anyone else for being women."

The point about becoming a mother is that now there is someone more important than you. So, I decide that if my daughters' needs are in conflict with certain ambitions of mine, then their needs come first. There are some things in family life - such as children having a mother who can (if financially possible) make them her priority in terms of time and energy - that are too important to compromise on. I don't see family life in terms of making sure we all take turns to "win".

"Like Peppa said, do men make these sacrifices? No. And no-one expects them to."

Being in competition with men regarding who makes which sacrifice is not mature or helpful here. Only in a minority of cases do a husband and wife both manage to secure part time work. In most situations, if the parents decide they want their children to be cared for by a parent, this involves one person resigning from their job. For a husband, becoming the sole wage earner for his family is a huge increase in responsibility, so my husband too is making a sacrifice - different from mine, but still significant.

"If you want to give up your job because you want to stay home, please do so, and be happy. But why make yourself miserable for your family? Why are you at the bottom of the food chain? Have some self respect! That's the most valuable thing you can teach your children."

If I wanted to do precisely what makes me "happy" at all times, I wouldn't have married or taken on the responsibilities of being a mother. I would have stayed single. That said, while I do lose the satisfactions of my professional life, I gain very considerable satisfaction from trying hard to give my daughters the best upbringing I can. My experience of working from when my first daughter was 3 months old to 18 months (initially full time, then two different part-time shift patterns) confirms what common sense also tells me, that it is not possible for me to "have it all". My daughters' upbringing as more important to me than my professional life.

There is not a "food chain" in my family. My husband and I are the adults, we try to decide what is best for our children, and then if we can achieve it, we do it.

I would argue that it is having self respect that has enabled me to decide to become a SAHM. When I was a single student, I worked hard to achieve top firsts in my degrees. Then I worked extremely hard looking after patients in the NHS. As a mother, when I discovered that my relationship with my daughters was entirely different when I spent my time at home with them, I moved into a different phase of my life as a SAHM. I am still working very hard and facing new personal challenges. My self respect comes from the belief that have I worked out what is the right thing for me to do in the different stages of my life and done it.

"maybe its how you conceptualise and plan parenthood.i never saw being mum as a giving things up competition. so no i was never going to be a mummy martyr recalling i gave up
career
money
progression
for the precious moments"

I completely agree that this is all about how one views parenthood. For me, my role as a mother is not about enjoying "precious moments", but rather with having a strong idea about how I want to teach and raise my daughters, and the sort of childhood I want them to have to prepare them best for adulthood. What I have in mind requires my time and energy, and I discovered that my career was consuming too much of both.

'I would argue that it is having self respect that has enabled me to decide to become a SAHM. When I was a single student, I worked hard to achieve top firsts in my degrees. Then I worked extremely hard looking after patients in the NHS. As a mother, when I discovered that my relationship with my daughters was entirely different when I spent my time at home with them, I moved into a different phase of my life as a SAHM. I am still working very hard and facing new personal challenges. My self respect comes from the belief that have I worked out what is the right thing for me to do in the different stages of my life and done it. ' Excellent post PianoClare and I feel the same way albeit my job was different to yours. I feel i have changed for the better since being a SAHM. My outlook has changed and I feel I am a strong person to be able to ignore what other people think.

I think it's brilliant that people feel happy with the choices they make for themselves and their children, it's just such a shame that people spend so much time looking outside of their own choices and putting down the choices of others. Surely it's much better to just get on with doing what works for you and stop wasting precious time trying to prove that other people are causing their children greater damage?

Perhaps it's insecurity about their own choices which makes people do this?

Now I'll carry on working because I can't afford not to and anyway I quite like it.

Now if this article was saying the SAHMs are appalling and damage their children I could understand all the critisisms, but regardless of how poor you might think the study is, why is everyone jumping on it and saying how dreadful when it just says 'WOHM shouldn't feel bad'? Do you think WOHM should feel bad?

PianoClare - "The point about becoming a mother is that now there is someone more important than you."

Ah, see, that's where we differ. I don't believe my children are more important than me. If it were a decision about who would get the last bite of food in the house, it would go to them. But when it's a decision about who gets to be a bit more unhappy in any given family situation, everyone gets equal consideration.

I have no problem with anyone being a SAHM, honestly, if that's what you want and what you think is best for everyone, including you. What I will never understand is a women who unwillingly gives everything up for her family because she believes that she has the lowest worth in the family set-up and so should be the one to make all the sacrifices.

'Do you think WOHM should feel bad?'
Not at all. I didn't feel bad when i was a WOHM. Well maybe abit when DD hated nursery and leaving her all day screaming. But in general i didn't feel bad.

What I don't like is when some WOHMs say that SAHP is rubbish, waste of time, only good for the mother etc. Some don't want any mum to have the choice to SAH. That is when they get defensive I would think.

I don't blame you for that jelly!

But the report doesn't say that. That's why I am not sure so many people are responding to it. My instant response was to say 'I know' as I'm a WOHM. If I was a SAHM I would have thought I'd just have ignored it as it isn't attacking anyone.