Iain Duncan Smith apparently thinks jobs should be offered to British people before migrants

[electra]

Surely he might as well adopt the BNP slogan?

"they have no loyalty to this country" I doubt 'British born' people do either

I agree with minipie, but I'd like to add that she makes the assumption that all these migrant workers are already here, and have skills/training/qualifications that British workers do not have, and it is simply a case of choosing the Pole sitting outside your office over the Brit sitting next to him. In many cases this is true of course, but very often the jobs are low-paid and low-skilled, and there is no real difference in ability between the two, only in motivation and work ethic. The migrant workers are willing to do low paid work and the British workers are not, because it is no less lucrative to stay on benefits, or indeed, more so.

And when there is not a constant source of ready and willing labour, employers and the government justfiy a need to bring more people into the country, when we already have millions of low-skilled people potentially available for work.

Take the argument that we need to keep bringing in Bangladeshi men to work as chefs and waiters in Indian restaurants - why? Any British person (including plenty of British people of Asian heritage) with an interest in catering can be trained to cook and serve Indian restaurant food - there is no need to bring people in from outside the UK. But it is a lazy assumption that has been allowed to persist, because it suits the agenda of the people who work in that industry. Having someone brought from 'home' may be a preference but it is certainly not a requirement.

Edam apart from saying if you don't work you get nothing.

There is a skills shortage in many jobs now and if there are not enough UK people, (I would say residents here and not just UK born), then many employees are looking at overseas candidates but it is very hard to go through the points system as many people have said. Many UK builders took about the skills that the polish for instance provide as being far superior to the skills that can be found by the local applicants. The real problem is our children are over tested and under-skilled. However, it is incredible hard for 16 year olds to get Saturday jobs now which is when we learnt our kills and working knowledge from. It is a catch 22 situation. Many employers will not even offer work experience because of the red tape.

In my limited experience (restaurant work throughout uni) immigrant workers are the only ones who can afford to work ridiculous hours for minimum wage/even less.

The men I used to work with all shared cheap houses, were fed at work, bought charity-shop clothes if any at all and worked 16+ hour days. They either saved like buggery or sent the money home because in certain countries, minimum wage here is a small fortune.

My point is, this kind of work was almost always a means to an end. My colleagues lived cheaply, saved hard and then after x amount of time could afford to leave and buy a house, start a family e.t.c. in their home country. For British workers , this isn't the case - the slog never ends. The cost of basic living is extortionate. Where is the incentive to work crazy hours in a shitty, demanding job where you are spoken to like rubbish for a wage which doesn't even cover your bills? Damned if I would be happy doing it!

Yes i think the reason they want to employ the chefs from overseas is because they can pay them rubbish wages and they would not be so clued up about things here.

If we are going to take that attitude then
a) Don't let them in at all
b) Adopt the points system, started by Labour but not for EU and in any case not really enforced
c) Erm
d) or ....

consider that we do need people like, for example, the Polish immigrants were a great example of highly trained, motivated people who, Shhhhhhh, ..... contributed to the economy by working, paying taxes and generally contrbuting to the UK economy by living here and spending. Like just about everyone's ancestors in New York, Canada etc. But that was our lot, this is another lot altogether clearly with no right to move borders. But yet our lot still to move to Canada, Austrailia, US still...And gain the short term cash in Dubai, Saudi, Sinapore,... erm?

In what way do Polish people contribute to the economy more than British people do? The Polish people are saving and sending money home, British people more likely spending it.

American and Canada weren't overcrowded when we went there. How many normal working-class people emigrate nowadays? Very few.

If you think Britain should be run for the benefit of the wealthy, say so. But don't dress it up in PC bullshit.

IMO the focus should be on negotiating a living wage / establishing affordable childcare so that (non) workers are better off in work than out of it and don't need complicated systems like tax credits just to afford the necessities, rather than scapegoating foreigners who are in entirely different circumstances to most of the jobseeking British Nationals I encounter day to day.

Fwiw I don't feel it is always laziness and incompetence standing in the way of British workers when it comes to jobs, the fact is that for many, lots of jobs simply don't pay at the moment and from what I understand of the benefit system, I don't see how further cuts are the answer. How do you realistically reduce the income of someone who has to pay for all food, travel, utility bills e.t.c. out of £60.00 per week in this climate?

America and Canada still let many people in and not just the professional classes.

'For the benefit of the wealthy'? Not my position generally, but very interested as to what you mean in this context?

Flooding the country with cheap labour to provide cheap services for those that have money at the expense of those whose only income comes from their value as workers.

Have you not noticed that the gap between rich and poor has widened greatly at the same time as we have had mass immigration? Do you think it's just a coincedence?

"IMO the focus should be on negotiating a living wage / establishing affordable childcare so that (non) workers are better off in work than out of it and don't need complicated systems like tax credits just to afford the necessities, rather than scapegoating foreigners who are in entirely different circumstances to most of the jobseeking British Nationals I encounter day to day."

Sorry that's bullshit. Why should the government flood the country with workers and then have to gerrymander the system in order to give people a living wage? It doesn't make sense. It's counteracting itself. Just stop immigration and let wages naturally rise to a level where people can afford to live and are incentivised to work. It's not exactly rocket science.

I live in a tourist area. A large proportion of employees are Eastern European. DD has been looking for a summer job in the hotels, cafes and supermarket but hasn't got anything. If we go into the supermarket we are served by foreign workers.

I know some employers that prefer to employ foreign workers over british as they will work longer hours etc.

there is another advantage for some major employers when recruiting all their staff from Eastern Europe. They put them up in shoddy accommodation and charge through the nose for it, deducting from salary, making sure the staff don't speak much English so they can't work out how much they are being ripped off. their wages are then recycled back into the company as rent, and they can't just leave for a better job as they are tied to the accommodation
you might be shocked at what some major employers get up to

just stop immigration

how's that 'just' going to happen?

The current system doesn't work! Fuel, food, rental prices are all rising and wages are being frozen / cut and it is those without the financial cushion to absorb the extra costs who will be feeling the pinch the most.

Realistically and rightly imo, IDS cannot make employers discriminate on grounds of nationality so this idea of pushing the immigrants out to allow wages to rise naturally isn't going to materialise.

I fear unemployment must be on the rise again and the current government are on the hunt for another tabloid villain to blame for the misery. We've already had Jobseekers and disabled people, why not take a cheap shot at foreigners while we're at it?

I do the Norfolk line ferry from Dunkirk to Dover very often. The "standard" languages on their signage are now English, French and Polish. Many of the staff are Polish. I grew up in Dover. The ferries were a massive employer and I knew many families growing up where one or both parents worked there.

I am pretty certain that the companies get away with paying lower wages than they used to because they can, purely to take advantage of this emerging eastern european workforce. This is so wrong.

I have a Polish cleaner. She works really hard. I pay her the going rate for cleaners in Belgium. I wonder that if she is an example of how her compatriots are willing to get in there and do it. So many Britons feel that certain jobs are beneath them, and the benefits system makes it almost impossible to do seasonal work etc.

And at the end of the day, the tax credit thing has let employers get away with paying shit wages for far too long.

I think we should be questioning why his government is allowing UK Banks and other financial institutions to cut 1000s of UK based jobs and send them offshore. Now that's something that no-one is talking about or questioning.

"just stop immigration

how's that 'just' going to happen?"
Government does whatever it has to do to do it. Leave the EU if necessary. I think it'll fall apart within a few years anyway. Just hope we don't end up with a Balkans like situation, which is looking more and more likely the way things are going.

Agree with both posters above. Isn't Lloyds TSB the latest culprit and aren't they (ahem) rather closely involved with gov? Hypocritical to say the least!

Why always blaim the banks. Our local Council is outsourcing jobs to India and many banks bringing them back.

Immigration has helped our birth rate go from 1.64% in 2001 to 1.96% now. This helps future funding for the country.

How many of those criticising immigrants are from pure UK stock? Not many, my grandparents moved to the UK and have produced lots of children who are helping the economy.

"Immigration has helped our birth rate go from 1.64% in 2001 to 1.96% now. This helps future funding for the country."
How do you figure this out?

We are one of the least aged nations in Western Europe. We have more people who will be working to pay the State Pension when we are old.

People don't pay taxes unless they have jobs. We do not need unskilled itinerant workers. We need hgh quality people with high levels of skills.

This is a small country. We can't keep doubling the population every 50 years, because eventually (and it won't be that long) there will be a disaster that causes food prices to skyrocket, and it will lead to people starving to death, and all the problems this will entail. We should be planning on reducing the population to a sustainable level, not increasing it.

It isn't about blaming the banks: I for one would be more convinced of the government's intention to address the problem of unemployment if it encouraged British companies to practice what they are attempting to preach rather than contributing to the problem. Situations like LTSB's reported outsourcing give the appearance that IDS is just stirring up a smokescreen of hate and even racism to distract from the government's own shortcomings re: the issue of job shortages/low wages and doing nothing constructive to combat it.