Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

Lego the link is to show that teachers can still retire before 68 according to the pension scheme.

Someone mentioned that they wouldn't be changing the pension already accrued. Well that is exactly what is happening. The amounts we have accrued up to now will change.

Someone else replied to my point about being happy to contribute. I would be happy to pay into a pension (what is it 10-15% of salary roughly?) but I want good pay increases when times are good. Obviously in hard times then it isn't possible, but we haven't had them in the good times either. The amount of pay increase wouldn't match our increased contributions, but I'd accept this need to pay in. Then we can end this notion of pay being low because we get all these other 'benefits'.

We don't get automatic annual payrises (when we get payrises that is), we get them based on performance. So if you're crap you don't get an increase. They happen annually, but not automatic.

It states in the Hutton Report that pensions built up to date will not be affected.

I wasn't talking about women who are part time all the through. I was talking about a 'typical' womans working life, where she may be part time and then as her chhildren grow older, she may return to full time employment.

Why shouldn't this mother who went part time collect a decent pension? Because having kids is what humans do. Because the country should be supportive of families, not penalise them. Because this woman has still devoted her life to teaching. Because it directly impacts on women, less so on men. Shall I go on?

Actually much as I would like to drop my disapproval into conversation with the teacher I will not get the opportunity to do it because I work more hours than they do. And, you are right, I have no way of knowing whether she is striking.

But I am annoyed about it. And I do hope teachers know that they do not have unanimous parental support.

Actually much as I would like to drop my disapproval into conversation with the teacher I will not get the opportunity to do it because I work more hours than they do.

You have no idea how much work she takes home. Odds are she is doing her reports right now, like the rest of us.

What I find most shocking about this thread is the number of people moaning about having to pay out for childcare for a day or take a days holiday to care for and spend time with their very own children.

teacherspensions.co.uk/members/members_faqs.htm#anchor1a, The Hutton Report is being used by the Government to put in proposals that they will put in place by the end of the parliament.

The Government had actually put no proposals out at all although it is likely that the Hutton review will form the basis of these proposals and he was in favour of public sector pensions and shafted many private sector views that they would gold-plated. His proposals included a guarantee the existing benefits would not be changed.

The Government did change statutory increases to all pensions that changed the basis from RPI to CPI and this would have an impact on all existing pensions that increase in line with statutory increases not just public sector. The unions are challenging the legality of this which may well win for existing benefits. I think there is a good chance.

That is why NASUWT are not striking yet, they are waiting to see what happens, as are others.

Cos most people cant afford to lose a days pay lego. It will cost me £20 an hour for a carer. In these times with everything going up and pay frozen its natural to complain.

Strix - please don't challenged your child's teacher. Firstly, you don't know if they're in the NUT or ATL or another union (or none, although that's unlikely because most teachers are in a union in case an untrue allegation is made against them, if no other reason!). Secondly, even if they are, you don't know if they voted for or against the strike. Thirdly, it seems a little unreasonable to take out your feelings about a nationally-made decision on your child's teacher. Poor person.

bitsyandbetty Your comment about performance-related pay - as a secondary teacher I have to attend weekly sessions (after school) for continuing professional development. I have to regularly account for the progress and results of the approx. 400 children I teach (yes, I mean individually - I have to know why Joe Bloggs didn't reach his potential, identify why Sarah Smart is above target, and demonstrate how I have planned my lessons to take this into account). Ofsted put a massive amount of pressure on us - how many people in the private sector are judged every one to three years and a detailed report of the company, including individual departments, posted on the net for anybody to see? And then be ranked against several thousand other companies in tables plastered all over the national media?

As far as I am concerned I am constantly proving my worth in terms of deserving a pay rise. (Incidentally, there is a ceiling - after 6 years you have to jump through a load more hoops, then it is capped a few years after that unless you take on extra roles.) There's also quite a big skills leap every year - I'm a far better teacher this year than I was last year (my first year).

I'm not saying having to prove yourself in this way doesn't happen in other professions but I resent the implication that we sit back, do the same thing every year, and get a pay rise anyway. As others have said, if you think we get an easy ride, by all means change profession!

Mind you it will have saved our company about £6m this year at a time we really need it and that otherwise would have led to job cuts so the CBI may put in place another legal challenge to keep it.

Spotty frock. Your level of education is very similar to mine (alevels, oxford 2.1, postgrad qualification). I did become a lawyer and I earn less than teachers of similar level of experience, haven't had a pay rise since 2007 and my pension fund is miniscule with an employers contribution of 1%.

I am horrified as to how this discussion has degenerated into a war between public and private sector, teachers and non-teachers. Am I allowed to agree with Manicinsomniac and to feel that striking is unlikely to achieve anything without being accused of teacher bashing?

I am a decent lawyer but would make a crap teacher. I'm sure many teachers would be crap lawyers (the skills required are after all very different).

The changes to public sector pensions are as inevitable as the changes to private sector pensions and are the result of the shit state of the economy and the fact that the govt is hellbent on reducing the deficit at a rate that is crippling to us all. We are all going to suffer (apart from the bankers but that's another story) so this bitchery is both pointless and divisive when we should all be taking to the streets to campaign for a better deal for all, public or private.

Riveninside, exactly. The public sector workers don't want to lose money either.

KPIs are in most companies now and in my former industry these were introduced in about 1996. You would be investigated every quarter and if you did not perform you would be out of a job. Please do not assumed you are the only ones ranked. Companies are very heavily investigated by investors every year and even a change in the Chief Exec could lead to insolvence. Plus I did not say that every sits back.

What I said was why should two people doing the same job be rated the same. I did not infer that you all sit back. How would you like to be restricted with a pay ceiling when a colleage does not do their bit. I think teachers do a wonderful job and have been very careful not to say otherwise.

Sorry, I cross-posted as it took me so long to like!

Batteryhuman - the difference is that you have put your opinion across without teacher-bashing, and for that I thank and respect you :)

Stix - if it makes you feel better about the number of hours you work, yesterday I worked from 7.30am-10pm with an hour for dinner and half an hour for my commute. I have no idea how this compares with what you work... just trying to prove the probably rather immature but I don't care point that I don't work 9-3. Ever.

Does striking ever work?

batteryhuman, "we should all be taking to the streets to campaign for a better deal for all, public or private". Yes, you are spot on with that comment.

It is always the same. It is always a case of wanting to 'bring/drag everyone down', rather than 'lets bring everyone up to a decent standard'.

TiredEmma I am a nurse also.
When shall we strike?
Do you think we will be able to work 12 hour shifts at 68?? Nights?
Am exhausted now at 44!

Sorry, bitsyandbetty, if I have misinterpreted what you said. I was referring largely to comments made by others further up the thread! I didn't say we're the only ones ranked but we do get a hell of a time of it from the media, more so than most others I think it's fair to say. I used the work in the private sector and know that, as in teaching, 95% work their socks off. isitreally, I don't think people in the private sector are 'fat cats' - although they do exist. If everyone got paid according to how hard they worked (I'm also thinking a lot about the council bosses who get paid an absolute fortune - surely nobody should get paid more than the prime minister?!) the world would be a much better place.

I was talking to a colleague today and was quite shocked at her attitude to the union she is a member of. She joined teaching 6 years ago, from the private sector, and so never had cause to be in a union before she did her PGCE. Her view is that she is in a union in case she ever needs to use them (ie in a case of allegations being made or whatever) but that she doesn't need to support things like this strike. I, however, grew up in a house with both parents teachers and both very active with the NASUWT during the 80s. I have a great deal of respect for the actions that teachers took during that time, and am fully aware that their actions led to the many of the f avourable terms and conditions teachers enjoy now. I was at secondary school during the times of the strikes, but still managed to come out with 10 GCSEs at A and B grade, go on to take A Levels and attend an RG university, so I don't buy the "disadvantageous to our DC's education" argument.

I guess my view is very different to that of my colleague - she sees her union membership in the same way as her house or car insurance - something she pays for and is there for her convenience.

On another note, my HT emailed all teaching staff today to find out who is intending to strike. So I guess she's trying to get advanced warning to parents.

Much of the vitriol on this, and other threads, is about inconveniencing parents - if the strike did not affect people personally, and mean that they have to organise extra childcare, then I doubt there would be so much poison directed at teachers. But that IS the point of a strike, after all. FWIW, I've been teaching for 14 years, and have only been on strike once, and that was specifically in London. Hardly "constant threats to strike". Surely those of you who are angry about teachers striking realise that it's a case of last resort?

Rambling now, sorry. Just wanted to add that I absolutely love my job, and wouldn't change it for the world. I am not a moany teacher, but I do get angry, wound up and downright upset by some of the nastiness directed at teachers on MN.

EvilTwins - DON'T reply to that email! Your HT is not legally allowed to ask who is striking. All that has to happen is your union rep gives HT the number of staff that are planning to strike, and Payroll gets told who it was after the event.

PS good point - I chose to do this job and am glad I did. Just trying to prove we're not slackers :)