Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

mrswoodentop teachers on here are only defensive because we are constantly attacked and told we are doing a bad job, by posters on here and by the media. It gets quite wearing. We are all quite patient, reasonable humans really

Currently there isn't a law in place regarding percentage of votes to legitimise a strike, but I'd put money that there will be after this summer.

I will quote what we carers get told when fretting about cuts. Theres a deficit you know and the country is broke.

I don't really understand why anybody would be in a union and then not bother to vote on something so fundementally important in terms of public perception as well as to individual teachers.

It is just like people moaning about the government and then saying they did not vote in the last general election really isn't it?

I'm not currently working but when I did I was in a union and I would never have ignored a ballot and I don't really consider myself particularly opinionated, just interested...

Views on strike has nothing to do with teacher-bashing, surely? Is about economic reality, not whether teachers do a good job or not.
Taxes come in from private sector to pay for public sector, and tax receipts are down. But even apart from that, final salary pensions are just unsustainable, which is why fewer than 10% of private sector workers get them.
I used to be a civil servant and could never understand the vitriol that was spouted by my colleagues whenever the notion of changing pension arrangements was mooted, but in the private sector company after company has had to ditch their generous pensions because otherwise they'd have gone out of business.
And if we don't ditch the (lovely, I know, but unsustainable) public sector final salary pensions, then the whole economy will go out of business. We feel your pain, but we've been through it ourselves (I've worked private sector, too)... pensions were introduced when people died at 65-70. Now we live until we're in our 90s expecting the same contributions to produce 20 extra years of pension. Not realistic I'm afraid...

30% turnout and 90% voting for strike action. That is approx 1 in 4 teachers in favour of the strike. I seem to recall that the NUT membership used to be quite militant but times have changed. If this is such a big issue for teachers then how do you explain the apathy?
I have no axe to grind with teachers. They work hard but so do lots of other people in other sectors. I work in the private sector and earn more than some teachers less than others -my companies Non-contributory pension now takes 10% of my salary in an attempt to maintain the forecasted pay outs on the retirment of its' members and currently on a 2 year pay freeze. Pure economics. We are not unionised so no strike option but what would be the point -striking is not going to magically restore the pension funds lost in a declining market (I heard a NUT spokesperson referring to the Teacher's pension being 'immune' from the markets but not clear on how that is possible -it is a fund in the open market and subject to the seem factors as any other investments -isn't it?)
Times are hard for many. Should the private sector, and by that I mean individuals, be funding the public sector deficits as well as their own?
There are bigger arguments about income tax avoidance(Vodafone/Top shop etc), tax relief on high earner pensions and these need to be addressed which would potentially inject billions into the government purse but at the same time risk business investment into the UK (so no jobs and no pensions -problem solved).

soverylucky so why not vote against rather than not voting at all?

I am not a teacher but my father taught all his working life, having qualified in 1958.
It am sick to the back teeth of people slating teachers whenever they express any concern or distaste for potential or actual changes to the way they do their job or their terms and conditions.
My father during his 30 odd year career saw changes to the way the job was perceived and the way they were treated - it went from a time when teaching was a respected career that people felt they had a vocation to do. Kids knew how to behave in a class and knew there were consequences for not doing so. This changed over the years to the point where aggrieved parents would see fit to barge into his class room to threaten him with violence because he had dared to send their little precious out of the room for disruptive behaviour.
Good luck to everyone who takes part in the strike - you have my support.

So why didn't you vote no to the strike then Soverylucky? From what you've said it sounds like you are against it. Now as a union member you will have to go out on a strike you don't agree with.

Am fairly horrified by some of the comments here. I am totally behind the teachers (go Goblinchild) - am not one but also public sector and my union is voting at the moment.

We are all in crisis at the moment because the private sector fucked up big time. Although the private sector, enterprise, big business etc is meant to be the be all and end all of creating a strong economy they managed to run it into the ground. Did the public sector cause the downturn - I think not.

So now, when things need recovering, we're paying the price. I refuse to debate about whether we have "better" or not pensions. We have pension schemes that are part of our T&Cs and they are being attacked. Seems to me that this is definitely a race to the bottom - "oh no, our pensions are worth diddly so we'll make sure yours are worthless as well".

Finally - unions exist for the benefit of their members. If you join a union you should abide by the result whether or not you voted that way. If you don't then you may as well not have bothered joining a union in the first place. And then, next time you get shafted by management, there won't be anyone there to help.

Has anyone considered the fact that life expectancies for teachers is lower than a private sector worker?

Depressingly for a male teacher who works full time as a Head of Department or lower and retires at retirement age and not early then the average life expectancy after retirement is a glorious 18 months! There is a government review on teachernet.gov.uk that gives the full analysis.

Read more: wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_life_expectancy_of_a_teacher_in_uk#ixzz1PL3QvHBn

also babymooners comment 'Taxes come in from private sector to pay for public sector, and tax receipts are down.' - so public sector workers don't pay taxes then?

Definitely FOR
Teaching is a thankless profession, with teachers having to work harder and harder and be more and more accountable for the problems in society at large. Less and less people are attracted to the job, the quality of teaching therefore goes down and it effects everyone. Making thier pay and conditions even worse than they already are will only make good people even less likely to educate or children.
Lets support great teachers as much as we can I say, the more we value and support education the better it will be!

I totally agree that teachers have to do a lot of extra work outside school hours (marking, prep etc). However, isn't this the case in almost all jobs nowadays? I know that DH is often back on his laptop once the children are in bed and when I was working it was the same for me too.

I do think people are unrealistic when commenting on teachers having a good deal and don't factor in the extra work/pressures etc. However, that is the case in almost every career I can think of.

As for striking...if you're a member of the union and they vote to strike then it's expected that their members support that strike isn't it?

Katz, of course public sector workers pay taxes. But the real contribution to the treasury comes from corporation taxes, not income tax. Businesses make money and that money is what pays for the public sector. As it should. But having a two tier system where public sector employees have guaranteed pensions for life and private sector workers (the vast majority of whom are not bankers but work at Tesco or in call centres) have no pensions at all, is just bonkers. The private sector started ditching final salary schemes 20 years ago because they had to; public sector pensions are going to have to go the same way otherwise the nation will be bankrupt.

Well yes Mishy exactly... but the only true way of knowing whether the teachers fully support this strike would be for them all to vote. As it stands, the unions are peddling their "90% (approx) support action" on the basis of a ballot that had a low turnout and the opposers are latching on to the fact the turnout was so low! Total stalemate in my mind, all due to apathy or a reluctance to commit by the teachers themselves....

I would support the teachers at my children school striking, if I felt the majority were in favour but at the moment I am not convinced.

There are too many crap teachers in this country. This is the reason that the profession is held in lower regard than in the past. Too many people with absolutely no aptitude for teaching get into the job simply for the lifestyle it affords.

No, you're right. I don't remotely blame the vast majority of private setor workers. But I do question the worship of big business which does appear to have landed us in this position. And I don't disagree that previous governments spent more than they should and I agree that many small businesses in particular are now suffering - frankly these bankers don't appear to be able to make any reasoned judgement about how to handle their own sector; first let's lend to everyone and now, let's lend to no-one.

However I didn't say the public sector shouldn't experience even a fraction of the cuts that other workers have faced or will soon face. We already have experienced cuts like everyone else - tax credits, benefits, pay freeze in the face of escalating inflation, large scale public sector redundancy. And you're right the public sector doesn't exist in a bubble so what will these cuts mean? It will mean that people who used to have secure employment and finances won't be spending their money on your goods. All those awful public sector people who are working to provide services to and for us all will be counting their pennies and not buying your products or services or delaying them.

But to return to the point in hand I am fascinated that there are people out there who seem to think that contracts should only work to the benefit of the employer and not for the employee. So, when your terms and conditions are attacked you'll just be accepting that as a given then? Christ, what did the labour movement fight for? Oh yes, that would be fair pay and conditions, reasonable working hours, health and safety at work ....

Someone mentioned "defaulting on a pension scheme I signed up for"

The goalposts for everyone in the private sector were moved in 1997 - FOURTEEN years ago when Gordon Brown set in motion actions which reduced returns and hence growth of private pension funds. Over the years the private sector emloyee has had to increase their pension contributions to try and achieve a reasonable retirement income level and only the contributions they make are under their control, not the actual amounts that they will receive in retirement PLUS it is still subject to market fluctuation - no-one makes up the difference in the bad years.

Because public sector employees are on final salary schemes the amount they will receive is fixed (although dependent on final salary) and any projected shortfall has to be funded out of tax revenue raised from the working population as a whole so the guaranteed benefit has to be partly subsidised by private sector workers at the same time as they have to up their own pension contributions to try and achieve a level of financial security in retirement.

The government have also had to increase state retirement age for all employees so anyone not providing privately for their own retirement will simply have to work longer FULLSTOP.

So, in conclusion please don't trot out the "defaulting on a pension scheme I signed up for" without considering that everyone else is has already been defaulted on or is currently being defaulted on in some manner or other if financial restraint isn't exercised in some way.

We're all asked, quite rightly, to pay into your pension fund via the actual pension itself it being funded from the overall tax/NI receipts and if the government believe action is necessary as the burden of public sectorr pensions is becoming simply too great, I suspect they are

a) not wrong

b) trying to act reasonably in difficult circumstances.

Private sector pensions became much more expensive for the private sector worker in 1997, (the public sector employee's did too but they didn't notice as they weren't directly asked to make up the difference), you've had an extra 14 years but unfortunately now your turn has come and even then only because of the state of the economy as a whole.