Spanish organic cucumbers....

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Anyone else feeling less than confident about the organic cucumber from Spain sitting in their fridge following this story about v nasty e-coli problems in Germany and Czech Rep?

The German parenting site I sometimes visit is abuzz with speculations about this being a planned attack either by terrorists or the pharma industry in order to bring a new vaccine or antibiotic on the market.

I'm amazed Rohmilch is still available. I'd thought some EU regulation would have put an end to this.

I wonder which strain this Bristol outbreak is. I don't think it is the same one as it seems to be going through children rather than the German outbreak which is hitting women. (which according to this report might not be because of women being profiled to eat more salady things)

Thanks MmeLindor, I hope she is ok too.
Most of the shops round here just don't have any cucumbers on the shelves. Was in kamps yesterday and all sandwiches are being made without salad.

Very worrying that we have now to avoid all veg!

Would veg be ok if cooked? I presume so. Just raw veg to be avoided.

yes cooked veg are ok. just need to be properly (MIL style) cooked.

It's not the organic cukes
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/31/e-coli-deaths-16-germany-sweden
Truth is they don't know. Most E coli gets into food during handling or through vile processes like feedlot runoff going into food crops. NB the use of sewage to fertilise crops is banned under organic standards but is common in conventional chemical ag. Animal manure used in both organic and conventional farming but in organic it has to be properly composted which kills pathogens.

With my tinfoil hat firmly on, I had the same thoughts as this woman when i found out the symptoms of this E coli outbreak--exactly same symptoms as low level radiation poisoning.
www.scribd.com/doc/56488383/EHEC-Symptoms-vs-Radiation-Poisoning
And yes, we are getting the Fukushima radiation in Europe as well as in the US:
www.bfs.de/de/ion/imis/spurenmessungen.html

interesting, bella. but then why is it mainly adult women and why only/mainly northern germany.
and if it is radiation, shouldn't there be many more cases?

sorry about that Leverkusen, I hope she is being treated well. They were saying on Deutschlandfunk that Hamburg's hospital capacities are fully used so it souns like an awful lot of people have caught it

Well just back from the shops canella and I bought frozen spinach, frozen peas, pureed apple and some things like that to tide us over. Yesterday I cooked zucchini and I presume it was ok because you fry it and then leave it simmeringi n a sauce for quite some time and it ends up as mushed as anyhting your MIL might boil for you IYSWIM. Anything like a pasta sauce, Auslauf, vegetable soup should be ok I think but don't really know. MOre like winter food though IMO

Public toilets, school toilets and so on probably one place people catch it and then if someone goes to the loo, is infected, doesn't wash hands and touches something you then touch, there you go.

Bellapig
I very seriously doubt that. For one thing, the disease is identifiable so while there are thousands of suspected cases there have been a couple of hundred confirmed cases. Confirmed means that they have tested positive for the E Coli strain that has been identified as causing the illness.

And why would it be affecting just the North of Germany, and not Holland, Belgium or Poland which are right next door?

when you say the north of Germany, is it mainly around Bremen and Hamburg? I ask because they are major ports

ok I see most deaths were in Hamburg :( so perhaps it began there , however people are seriously ill in a critical phase throughout Germany.

Yes, there are reports of cases throughout Germany now. I have friends in Hamburg, must ask them about it.

Map here

hmm, can't see the map.
I have family in hamburg, they are all ok so far. but avoiding raw and undercooked veg like the plague and keeping the kitchens as clean as possible.

map on the right, bit down

In answer to questions, the idea is that most of us have E coli in various strains a lot of the time and sometimes pathogenic forms will move in to an already immune compromised body. The article explains it well, here is the link again.
www.scribd.com/doc/56488383/EHEC-Symptoms-vs-Radiation-Poisoning
Why do women get these symptoms more than men? IMHO we are more sensitive to these things. Scientifically, it is known that we respond to many toxins differently than men. eg alcohol...
Why doesn't everybody suffer from same symptoms if it's radiation? it's individual susceptibility. Some are more sensitive than others to different things. eg all non-eco paint is toxic, but I can stand the smell whereas my partner gets sick. But I can't stand any exposure to formaldehyde, which doesn't bother him.

Re why it seems to be affecting mostly Germany, there have now been cases confirmed in other European countries and N America. Why did it seem to begin in Hamburg? Hamburg is a port and they are taking measures to monitor imports for radiation, but of course there is only a certain amount they can do and the whole of Europe has been affected by the radiation to some extent. But you would expect a port to be first affected. Radiation deposition from Fukush does vary by region, according to whether you've had rain, weather conditions etc.

Bellapig also, women arguably eat more salad than men!

Bellapig
my understanding is that there have been cases outwith Germany but the patients were infected in Germany. The Swedish woman who died had recently been on holiday in Germany.

radiation poisoning??

Do they still not have any idea where the Ecoli is coming from?

Interestingly, according to the bbc link I posted above, a previous time there was an outbreak of this strain of e coli ( in the states in 1994 in hamburger meat) it was again predominantly women.

If it were low level radiation then why are the majority of people getting better yet some in the same region are still getting sick? If you want to go down a conspiracy theory route then bio warfare/terrorism would be the logical one to choose.

Some of the cases now being reported don't seem to have a Germany connection, eg there are many cases in the UK now with no apparent Germany connection. But from what I know of Germany, they would be among the first to document and report cases. Their efficiency does not seem to be just a stereotype. Do read the symptoms though at the link I provided. Bit too much of an overlap.