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How can anyone 'forget' that they've left their toddler in the car for 5 hours?

126 replies

sonearsofar · 22/05/2011 13:34

I've just heard the terrible story in the news today. Apparently an Italian university 'forgot' that he had left his 22 month old toddler in the back of the car. She died after being in there for 5 hours.

OP posts:
sassymammy · 26/05/2011 19:00

wow, that article is so powerful. it's so easy to quickly judge or criticise when you hear a story like that, but reading those stories all one can feel is huge sympathy for both the children and the parents.

Quote i lifted from it, from a clinical psychologist:

"In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. "We are vulnerable, but we don't want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we'll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don't want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters."

i think this may apply to many other circumstances where parents are criticised.

Pagwatch · 26/05/2011 19:14

"I think this may apply to many other circumstances where parents are criticised"

God yes. And explains while people are so determined in their criticism.

AMY678 · 26/05/2011 19:25

this is terrible.

meditrina · 26/05/2011 19:27

BoffinMum: did you also read about that product in the link above?

NASA developed it, because a father whose child died like this was a rocket scientist. His colleagues wanted to do something as a tribute to help avert future tragedies

It didn't go into production because, in US at least, it was uninsurable - ie if someone had one and it failed in some way and a child died, the likely payout is just too big to indemnify.

AyeRobot · 26/05/2011 19:35

sassymammy, I think that it applies in circumstances other than parenthood too. Like blaming women who are raped for wearing a short skirt. Or those who fall for clever scams. Or those who have a child with someone who then fucks off never to be seen again and so have to rely on benefits for a time. Loads of stuff. You only have to read MN for a day and see it all in action.

I do understand where folks like that come from. I used to have a little of that in me and I probably still do, if truth be told, because of the reasoning in the quote you posted. It took a few hard life swerves to realise that I am lucky to get away without horrendous consequences to the kind of everyday mistakes that we all make. And have been unlucky/naive/unprepared/careless for others and so it has not turned out so well. There is not one person who avoids slip-ups that have the potential for a horrible ending. Luckily, not all of the slip-ups do end up that way.

ThisIsANiceCage · 26/05/2011 19:41

It's called the Just World Hypothesis, and is intimately linked with victim-blaming.

Tanith · 27/05/2011 13:15

"Would the swiss cheese holes lining up be the same ones that can make you drive past the nursery, get home, lock up the car, walk toward the house then realise the baby is still at nursery?"

Yes, that does happen. I'm a childminder and had to phone two different sets of parents to check they hadn't forgotten their child. They had!

cumbria81 · 27/05/2011 15:13

Wow, that's a really eye-opening article. How awful Sad, so easily done.

dollius · 27/05/2011 16:03

This extract from that Wikipedia entry is fascinating:

"In another study, female and male subjects were told two versions of a story about an interaction between a woman and a man. Both variations were exactly the same, except at the very end the man raped the woman in one and in the other he proposed marriage. In both conditions, both female and male subjects viewed the woman's (identical) actions as inevitably leading to the (very different) results."

I have always wondered if this is the reason for the lack of convictions of rapists,

BoffinMum · 27/05/2011 17:43

AyeRobot, I have to say I have spent less time on MN of late because of the utter outpouring of nasty judgements about people on here. I even got it myself this week in response to a fairly inocuous childcare threat I started, which I had to end up hiding. It makes me feel rather sick to the stomach.

I am so very sorry for these parents and children, and for my part I will glance more in other people's cars just to help out in future, rather than always passing by on the other side, wrapped up in Planet Boff isues.

mathanxiety · 27/05/2011 17:57

Dollius, great question imo. I think the just world theory goes far to explain recent comments by Kenneth Clark.

Bucharest · 27/05/2011 19:49

It's just been on the news here that another child has died in a car, 11months old this time. His father had gone sailing and forgotten he'd taken the child with him. News reports a bit incredulous that it could have happened twice in a week in the same place.
Sad

AyeRobot · 27/05/2011 21:46

Very sad, Bucharest. Poor little thing and poor family.

BM, I know what you mean. Seems I should have added women who have an unwanted pregnancy to the list. (As an aside, many women seem to have a very high bar to clear in order to avoid the "you made you bed and now you have to lie in it" judgement.)

dollius, that extract is huge. Don't want to derail the thread, but I think you are spot on with your conclusion. I can't be arsed right now, but I will bring it up on the feminism board at some point.

ChippingIn · 27/05/2011 22:16

Bucharest :( Your stomach turns just reading it... I don't think I could live with myself if I did something like that. You would think with it just having been in the news people would be hype vigilent wouldn't you? I wonder if he was meant to drop the baby off on the way or if he was intending to take him on the boat?

edam · 28/05/2011 00:10

oh no, Bucharest, two in a week? Poor families.

Someone on here once gave a top tip about making sure everyone is sure who is watching the child: copy pilots and say 'you have ds/dd' and don't relax until your partner/dh/other adult agrees 'I have ds/dd'. Read that when I'd only just got back from a rather stressful museum visit where my niece had run off - both dh and I thought the other one was keeping an eye on her...

Xales · 29/05/2011 21:04

When we were on holiday, I was on a sun lounger by the pool. Ex went off to the apt for a nap. DS followed him and I thought he knew he was with him.

Several hours later he came back alone.

We found DS in the bar having coke. He was in there with the entertainment crew.

Was in a cold sweat for ages thinking what could have happened.

BoffinMum · 02/06/2011 17:27

Hope it was the liquid kind Xales. Wink

It's easy done - they should issue all new parents with a sheepdog to round up the flock IMO.

mummytigger · 03/06/2011 09:45

What I don't get is how someone is able to get out of the car, slam the door, lock the door and walk off without looking into the car once. Especially if he was the one to put the baby in the car in the first place.

Absolutely shocking, I can't imagine anyone being so careless. And if my fiancé ended up doing something so serious and so harmful I'd have to really look inwards at myself before being able to look at him again, let alone defend him for effectively murdering my child. So upsetting :'(

ChippingIn · 03/06/2011 10:55

Mummytigger - I hope you can always live up on your high horse and that it doesn't turn around and bite you one day.

BoffinMum · 03/06/2011 18:38

Mummytigger, it's explained in some of the articles, and is attributed to two things - a strange quirk of human memory, and a change in road safety law.

Basically when people are overtired and perhaps stressed because of work or unemployment, or difficult finances, or a difficult home situation such as ill relatives or whatever, they start to function on autopilot to an extent, and perform routine tasks almost mechanically, with one part of the brain, whilst another part of the brain that should be processing important information about the child's presence chunters away working on the problem that is bothering the individual, whether they want it to or not.

This means that their memory starts being unreliable - one psychologist describes this as the 'Swiss Cheese' theory - you can have a few holes ina Swiss Cheese and it is still fine, but add too many and basically the structure collapses. This could happy to any single one of us, which is why it is so worrying. They say if you can forget your keys, then you are technically capable of forgetting your baby in the back of the car given the right set of (admittedly extreme) circumstances.

Add to this a change in road safety law whereby cars have airbags and babies are required to be transported in the back, out of sight and out of mind, and you have a kind of perfect storm in which disasters like this can happen more readily. So the message is that if you really care about your children, try to avoid stress as much as possible, and be aware that we are all capable of such a terrible mistake and train yourself to look out for it in the same way that we look out for cars before we drive away from the kerb.

But please don't criticise these parents, all of whom are very like us here on MN, but additionally consumed with the most horrendous guilt. Show some compassion.

mummytigger · 04/06/2011 23:28

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but it isn't like leaving a window open while you go shopping... it's endangering a childs life. And stories like this are just heartbreaking. At least we know that he'll be more careful in future. But give it another 6 months, and another story will pop up just like this one. And another, and another. It's the same with the "left the baby on the roof of the car" scenario. If you have your child with you, your first priority should be the child.

AyeRobot · 04/06/2011 23:34

Did you read the thread, mummytigger?

Did you understand the bit about the Swiss Cheese theory, where having a stack of slices of cheese with holes in it are not a problem, unless a one in a billion situation happens where holes happen to line up perfectly and so shit happens and falls through the massive hole of holes that wouldn't have happened if the slices were stacked randomly as normally occurs?

Or do you want to still pretend that bad stuff can't happen to you because you follow all the rules?

Noellefielding · 04/06/2011 23:36

The poor mother said he is an extraordinary father.

I can imagine how it could happen, some people are very habit oriented and they compartmentalise things and can be very focussed.

I can't bear this story because the thought of his suffering is too hideous, you can imagine it would drive a person to drink/drugs/suicide. Just horrible.

I think the parents also let all the child's organs which could be donated, be donated. Amazing they did that to make something good come out of something too horrible.

Our car alarm goes off if there's any movement in the car which would have prevented this happening maybe. Unthinkable poor poor couple.

ChippingIn · 06/06/2011 20:22

mummytigger - did you actually bother to read the links? I'd bet a lot of money on the fact that you haven't!!

Noelle - it didn't in one of the reports, the poor Dad just kept going to the window of his office and turning it off - I guess thinking he'd need to get the alarm checked out?! :(

You just can't even begin to imagine the guilt can you - heartbreaking :(

Jacksterbear · 06/06/2011 20:30

It's confusing me that some posters are saying "I don't understand how this can happen; it's absolutely unforgivable" as if those 2 statements are one and the same point.

I absolutely understand how this can happen (having read the link). But I would never forgive myself if I did it, and probably would never forgive DH or anyone else who did it to my DCs either. They are two completely separate points IMO.

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