Opposition debate on ringfencing Sure Start

[NicName]

I'm watching Opposition proposal debate that Sure Start should be ringfenced again from the Con Dem cuts:
news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_8167000/8167404.stm
It's truly shocking that councils are having to close such services.
Sure Start allows mums to work, affords children a good start in life & delivers great value for money in reducing benefits. All parties have conceded that. Clegg promised to protect Surestart from any cuts.
Think Cameron should really be apologising to women for the swingeing cuts to Sure Start & Foundation Years spending that are going to affect millions of mums and kids & their opportunities for years to come, rather than patronising any that point out uncomfortable truths to him.

Viva

We organise Buggy Walks to the park!

I'd argue that she does need a TV licence. She's a single mum, no family about. Is she really supposed to sit in her flat all evening and most of the day on her own with a crying new baby. I think when the baby is asleep she needs something to do and being able to watch TV is probably keeping her from PND.

And no its not a big plasma TV before someone says anything. Its not even a widescreen, flat TV.

I want to organise buggy walks to the park!!! I'm worried my boss will be if I suggest it.

I can honestly say I think sure start saved my life.

I was referred by my HV, and a sure start staff member came to my house, got to know me and literally held my hand into a group, where I met loads of other parents from all walks of life. They then rang me a few times to see how I was, check I knew when groups were, see if I was having problems and so on.

When I went to the groups, there was always plenty of advice availiable in an informal way, a HV on hand, lots of good quality toys and educational materials. I can buy craft equipment for the children for cheap, I can borrow toys, there are courses on all aspects of parenting.

The whole thing with surestart is that everyone can go, they can mix. I know I would be very reluctant to go to a group just for mums with mental health issues, but I love going along and mixing with people from all different backgrounds, and knowing that support is there if I need it. People who are struggling can see good parenting modelled, instead of just being told aout it.

The "community" groups, while they are lovely, don't make any effort to include new people, and are basically a big room of plastic toys with no other facilities, and cost me, with two kids in tow, £5 entry. That is often too much. Also, the posher families seem to all go to the really expensive groups, so us poor mums get a bit ghettoised. At surestart everyone mixes.

And people who think breastfeeding support shouldn't be funded by the government can...well, read the statistics. Thats like saying smoking cessation shouldn't be funded. Madness.

I'm another 'middle class' parent who made full use of sure start facilities. The idea that I should be excluded is horrible. Yes I know how to eat healthily but knew no better than the next new mum the best way to wean, for example. It was an absolute lifeline for me' and just because someone might think I'm a stuck up bint ( believe me' I'm not ) I should be excluded? I was a complete fish out of water with my baby but would never have admitted it, the sure start help was invaluable to me' and I really cannot put into words how important sure start is for EVERYONE who NEEDS it.

The SS centre groups that I went to when DS was very small did tend to be full of "middle class mummies" but there was nowhere else to go in my area that provided the same service. We were all happy to go to other baby groups but when you have a very small baby the groups are really for you not for them. So although we were middle class (tut tut) we all had problems and issues, from breasfeeding, sleep depravation, feeling low and unable to cope which we needed support for. You don't get that at Gymboree, or baby yoga.
Now that our children are toddlers, very few of us still go to SS as there are other, usually charitable run, groups that suit our children better. But the childrens centre was invaluable for me in the early days, and I'm sure that the support and help I got there prevented me from developing PND. Just because I'm mc doesn't mean that I know how to be a good mum!

Viva, they are brilliant. The mums enjoy getting out and then coming back to the centre for a drink etc and it is a good way to find out what walks/amenities/places to feed ducks are in your area

Sorry mums and Dads and carers...but majority Mums

Surestart is a life saver, seriously, it provides me a place which is free to which i can take my 2 year old to do activities in the local area, it has an impact on her behaviour, the days she oes she is much calmer, it is preparin her for nursery, teachin her to interact with other kids and adults. it is a place to allow me to et out of the house with the kids as with 3 kids it is hard to travel on public transport and even the park can be a niht mare as you cant look in all directions at once.

also i felt secure enouh with the staff to ask for help when i needed it. i have a relationship with these people that i dont have with hv or p as i see them reulalrly, they know my children and their behaviour, their issues etc, from first hand experience.

sure start has helped me put my husband on tripple p parentin course when he was sayin he doesnt know how to discipline them and it is danerous as they are runnin away from him on road etc, as as a child he was just beaten if they thouht he was in the wron. the chatter box sessions have helped with dd1s salt, the dads roup has helped my husband be confident in takin the children out more then one at a time.

i dont know what i would do with kids without surestart. and they help so many people, they have enlish and it classes, excercise classes, form fillin sessions, benefits advice sessions, a sensory room for sn kids, youn parents activities.

sure start helps provide structure and routine in my kids lifes. and to many others.

i dont know how taretin would work? i mean how do you know whats oin on behind closed doors and who needs help? not only the poorest need help. not only the least educated need help.

yummy mummys need somewhere to socialise etc too?

Considering the Government is spending around £140 billion more then it is collecting in tax I can't say the loss of state subsidised baby massage and parent and toddler trips to the zoo must end and not before time in my opinion. Sure Start is an example of Labours profiligacy and helps explain the dire condition of the public finances.

i forot toy library, biliual books library in lots of lanuaes, healthy eatin sessions...

Hand on heart I have to say that I don't think the budget should be ringfenced. Not when budgets are been cut for things like adult disability centres, assistance for parents of disabled children.

Ideally I'd like to see Sure Start centres stay open and to be open for everyone but I think they need to look at scaling back on what they provide. So maybe less of the zoo trips and the baby massage and mummy yoga and the specialist weekly b/f support group. Instead keep the more general mum and baby/mum and toddler sessions where b/f advice, weaning advice, general support is available to all.

I think it's sad that people are lumping bf support in with mummy yoga etc. The bf group at my SS centre was much more than that, and some of the other support groups sprang out of discussions that started in that group. But the HV's need somewhere to direct women to who are having BF difficulties. I worry that if it was a more general group some women may not feel comfortable enough to bring up their bf difficulties, particularly if there is noone there breastfeeding at the time.

I suppose women might feel less sure about bringing b/f support up at a more general group but I'd like to think that if there is a HV there at the general group they'd still feel they could ask. We have a little room at the side of our group room so if anyone wants to discuss something in private with a professional they can.

I feel a bit sad sometimes that the formula feeding mums are excluded from the weekly breastfeeding session, there is so much more that goes on in that session that they'd really benefit from but they're not allowed to go.

"So maybe less of the zoo trips and the baby massage and mummy yoga and the specialist weekly b/f support group. Instead keep the more general mum and baby/mum and toddler sessions where b/f advice, weaning advice, general support is available to all."

You'd find nobody turned up imagine, people need bribing into these groups, something in it for them like a free day out otherwise they simply will not go along just to be taught how to do it all "properly" which is why they started in the first place.

Our HV did allow FF mums to our bf group as she didn't want it to be exclusive, which was a lovely idea.

Problem is that after the zoo trip 90% of people who were on the trip never came back to the centre. The other 10% were people who'd already attended prior to the trip.

I do a 12 week antenatal course for more vunerable women and its generally quite popular. I have to go and see the women in person or ring them as they won't bother coming if they just get a letter, they take a bit of persuading. But nothing in them apart from the course and a free cup of tea. Incidently I have to buy the teabags, sugar, milk and biscuits myself out my own money as SureStart won't provide them which I think is bad.

I agree Viva re cutting back on day trips out if some are doing that and focusing on the other things. I also think the more well off should pay.

Those that don't see the value of SS, below par parenting costs this country a fortune. Getting things right before kids start school will save the whole country a lot in the long run.Our kids will do better at school so engage in less crime,more likely to get a job and off benefits etc,their health will be better etc.

Not protecting SS is a false economy.

I think bf help should be protected as bf saves mums money and again where else do you go for face to face advice?

Our local Surestart is slap bang in the middle of a huge council estate in an area that anecdotally used to be known as one of the most deprived in Britain - not sure if it still is but it does seem pretty poor. I've not been in the Surestart Centre but I would say that the location is spot on for attracting the people it was meant to attract. It would be a shame for such a service to be cut. I appreciate that may not be the case in all locations so perhaps selective cutting, if that's what they are doing, is right. I think Sure Start was one of the last Government's successes though so it ought to be built on and tweaked where necessary, rather than scrapped.

I have done voluntary work in a breastfeeding group run out of a SureStart centre for over 2 years. The group is almost entirely staffed by volunteer local mums, supported by one breastfeeding counsellor. So the group delivers a lot of support for a tiny amount of money. The centre is in the most deprived part of town, but yes I have to agree the bf group is used more by the middle class. However, absolutely everyone is entitled to bf support, and I have to say that by & large hv's and other health professionals do not have the level of training & experience to provide appropriate support.

From my personal experience I would not have suceeded in bfing at all without this group. Now I have experience of helping other mums & troubleshooting my own problems - I will help anyone I possibly can for the rest of my life. It has made a profound difference to me & my family. Please don't lump bf support in with yoga & zoo trips. We are in such a pickle in Britain - the state has let down so many women. Don't lets lose these groups - they can make a real & permanent difference to lives.

I appreciate I am in the minority on this score, but the only support I got from anyone professional for DS's SN (at 3 he was severely language delayed) from anyone whilst on lengthy SALT/Paed lists for a year was via surestart. They plugged the gap in my area's pre-school SN provision.

It's an obscene waste of money, and if middle class parents want these services then they should pay for them. It doesn't even work. The Headstart program in the US was a failure that was shown to have no effect on educational, social or health outcomes for the kids it was aimed at.

You'd think the UK would have learnt a few lessons from this, but no.

if you want salt or parentin advice or nutrition advice you should pay?

The trouble is many who need it don't actually want it, doesn't mean they don't need it and it's in everyones interests that they have it.

i think that if i didnt have that relationship with sure start staff i would have never been able to ask for help when i needed it.

you miht o to ss not intendin to ask for help, but once you are comfortable and you realise they are non judemental etc you are more likely to ask for helo and take the help on offer, espescially as staff are ood at pickin up on thins and initiatin conversations oin out of their way to et to know families etc.