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Is breastfeeding just a middle class thing? Radio 4 Women's Hour

138 replies

Witchycat · 27/10/2005 12:12

Interesting feature on Women's Hour today. Suggests women from lower socio-economic backgrounds don't usually even attempt b/f and interviews a number of women about why they didn't want to and what is being done to provide better information to encourage women to make an informed choice.

Think this will take you to the Listen Again page - go to the bottom & click Women's Hour on the Top 5 box (assuming your pc has speakers and you are not at work!)

OP posts:
stitch · 28/10/2005 10:46

i know that some people see it as a sign of economic success being able to bottlefeed their baby.

expatinscotland · 28/10/2005 10:53

Can't say I've seen that, stitch, but then again I am not British.

We rely on my wages to eat, and are low-income, so I must go back before losing my full wage, as we cannot afford for me to bring in only £106/week.

laligo · 28/10/2005 10:56

i'm veering off-course a bit, but stitch that reminds me - i know someone who works for a supermarket and they told me those super-cheap bargain ranges are not popular with the most working-class customers. they prefer brand items because it shows they are not poor. the "value"/"basics" items are snapped up by middle-class skinflints like me. so that breastfeeding argument makes a lot of sense.

expatinscotland · 28/10/2005 11:08

Since when did this become a soapbox from which to make generalisations about 'the working class'? I'm full of pregnancy hormones, granted, but I find comments like that highly offensive. And certainly not helpful to anyone, least of all groups of people in which there is a low-level of breastfeeding.

I personally know MANY low-income people who buy value brands b/c it's all they can afford, who don't smoke, drink, go on foreign holidays, etc. In fact there are quite a few on this board.

paolosgirl · 28/10/2005 11:08

I work in Health Promotion, in a fairly deprived region of Scotland. Breastfeeding rates, without a doubt, are higher amongst middle class women. A lot of great work is being done in our area though a buddy system - getting women from lower social groups (and teenage mothers when possible) who have breastfed themselves, to go out into the community and promote breastfeeding to pregnant women from similar backgrounds. There's still a long way to go, without a doubt - and a lot of the tabloid and celeb media still have a long way to go in helping the cause.

paolosgirl · 28/10/2005 11:09

Expat - there is a difference between working class and low income!

morocco · 28/10/2005 11:11

are they all the low income but brought up middle class people though expatinscotland??
sorry - i know what you mean about stereotypes - on the other hand though it is often true and that's why it becomes a stereotype. we're not individuals, just part of some herd or other to all the marketing/ad guys for a start

expatinscotland · 28/10/2005 11:12

Well, I really hope I never come see it in people, paolo, b/c to me that's tantamount to the racism - when ANY group of people are tarred and feathered w/the same brush.

buffytheharpsichordcarrier · 28/10/2005 11:14

yes I think laligo's point (and it is a very valid one) is that it is a misnomer to equate working class with low income, not the same thing at all.
it is much more to do with culture and expectation, IME.

paolosgirl · 28/10/2005 11:17

It's not really racism - as I'm sure anyone who's been on the receiving end of a racist attack would tell you!

It's more about how different socio-economic groups spend their money. Massive amounts of money is spent on market research so that companies can target their brands in a certain way to a certain group. It's business, pure and simple. Your income doesn't really have so much of a bearing.

Anyway - back to breastfeeding...!

expatinscotland · 28/10/2005 11:26

I have been on the receiving end of racism. Many times. The worst and most common kind, too, the subversive, subtle type that many who have not experienced will tell you isn't real, over-reaction, your imagination, a one-off, etc.

There are certain values that some members of an element of society will espouse. This in turn can lead to stereotyping.

But it's entirely defeatist to go around making assumptions about ANYONE b/c of their soci-economic background, current financial situation, religion, skin colour, etc.

That's where you START to change things, when you try to stop yourself colluding in that sort of behaviour, way of thinking.

Just my 2p.

paolosgirl · 28/10/2005 11:34

But we're not talking about assumptions - we're talking about statistics showing that more women from higher socio-economic groups breastfeed than women from lower soci-economic groups! A lot of work is being done to try and improve the rates - but there a lot of reasons already listed as to why this will take a long time.

I choose to live my life a certain way. I have my own values, and my friendships and relationships are with people who share these values. Other people have values that I seriously question, and so I remain at arms length. I'm certainly not going to start apologising for that, or feeling guilty about it!

buffytheharpsichordcarrier · 28/10/2005 11:40

yes I think it is valid to make certain generalisations about some groups if your motives are equally valid - e.g. if you say that you want to increase bf rates (or access to antenatal education, or reduce smoking, or whatever) in a certain group, then it would be valid and indeed essential to try and target your "marketing" to the needs, requirements and so on of that group. If along the way you made some generalisations, then that would be an inevitable but benign consequence IMHO.

Nightynight · 28/10/2005 11:49

expat - I know exactly what you are talking about, as dx suffered from that kind of racism.

class generalisations - hmm, politically incorrect but so tempting for brits. Our class does define us so strongly in the way we speak, dress, think, eat etc. I think I'll give up making class generalisations when I can be with a fellow brit for more than 5 minutes and not be able to predict what sort of school their parents went to.

PeachyClair · 28/10/2005 14:55

I'm sorry, but you'd struggle predicting my parent's schools from me: Mum went to great Grammar, Dad went to a terrible Council Estate Comp, and got expelled from it too. I suppose you could say that you'd be bound to get one right, but which one?

No-one from my school year went on to HE, yet all (but me, I was engaged tho!) got married before having kids, breastfed, and own their own houses. We did own our own house, we don't now but that has more to do with DH getting sick for a while, and me being at University. Both my sisters are educated: one has an HND, the other is extremely experienced in her field (Nursery manager) with an NNEB and trying to raise enough money (ie paying of her Mortgage early) so she can go do her Early Years degree. I had a good career too, before Uni.

I really do think some class barriers are breaking down. The hard line of distinction has faded now: there is an obvious underclass of benefit recipients, and a clear class of upper management village dweller types... but there seems to be a new and huge class in the middle that doesn't fit the stereotype of the old 'Working Class'. We often own our own houses (it's practically impossible to get social housing these days anyway), we work, we often earn good wages, we're educated and we aspire to more for our children.. We're pretty much indistinguishable from the old middle class, except that we cannot change the occupation of our parents.

What class would you call my children in a few year's time? I will be teaching (hopefully), DH will either be taking an animatronics degree or running his business in that field; We will probably own a nice house; they will probably attend University and certainly attend good schools. Yet I attended a sink school so bad it no longer exists, and was raised in a Council House.

Back to BF issue tho... the HomeStart I used to work for was acknowledged for it's excellence in improving BF rates amongst it's famillies. Why? Well, support was an issue: many of the Mums weren't breastfed themselves, and a network of support was provided to replace that maternal adivice: peer group support mainly, but with MW, BF Counsellors to call on when needed. Positive imagery was good too: there were posters everywhere of young mums feeding, Dad's in obviously estate housing claiming how proud they were that Mum fed; booklets; phone numbers for helplines. What they ere doing was essentially providing what many 'middle class' (tho some of our famillies were) Mums had access to anyway: when I started bf there were lots of feeding pillows, books, groups, etc that I simply could not afford to buy or travel to. Even phone lines are pretty useless if your line has been cut off and you're stuck on a PAYG expensive tariff.

BTW thanks expat... as a non smoking / little drinking / no chance of a foreign holiday poverty stricken working class type, I appreciate you sticking up me and my low class ilk .

hunkerpumpkin · 28/10/2005 15:03

NN, it may not be something that all Muslims believe, but it was a Muslim girl who had her son's head shaved, and it was Muslims the Head of Midwifery was talking about when she said about not feeding newborns colostrum.

I can't lie and say it wasn't, can I?

moondog · 28/10/2005 15:16

Very interesting post peachyclair as are all the rest.
Just goes to confirm my belief that b/feeding is about so much more than getting calories into your baby.
That's why I find all the arguments for/against and even downright ambivalent so fascinating.

NotQuiteCockney · 28/10/2005 15:22

Um, but hunker, I'd bet those parents were also, say, dark-haired, and relatively short (I'm assuming they were Bengali, and typically so). And it wouldn't be reasonable to say "dark-haired parents don't give their babies colostrum". Or short parents shave their babies' heads.

I don't doubt they were Muslim. I'm just saying the colostrum thing isn't a Muslim thing, it's a cultural thing. (Similarly, some people think female circumcision is a Muslim thing. It's not. It's a cultural thing, which some Muslims do.)

moondog · 28/10/2005 15:25

Cultural issue inextricably bound with a religious one???

Don't think you can separate cutlure and religion to be honest....

NotQuiteCockney · 28/10/2005 15:27

But I don't think all Muslim groups do any of these things. Well, I'm quite sure there are lots of Muslim groups that don't do female circumcision, and never have.

moondog · 28/10/2005 15:30

Oh of course ncq! However I think it's a bit silly to pretend it's not asociated with Islam because it is.

NotQuiteCockney · 28/10/2005 15:31

I don't understand see that at all. What does not using colostrum have to do with Islam? That's like saying binge drinking has something to do with Christianity.

Seriously, I'm confused by the idea.

NotQuiteCockney · 28/10/2005 15:32

English broken.

Also, I'm not saying not giving colostrum is the same, in any way, as binge drinking.

moondog · 28/10/2005 15:32

Think binge drinking may well have something to do with Christianity actually...

moondog · 28/10/2005 15:36

Speaking of religion,better go out to eat as the fast has just broken here in Turkey and there'll be no food left in half an hour.

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