Is breastfeeding just a middle class thing? Radio 4 Women's Hour

[Witchycat]

Interesting feature on Women's Hour today. Suggests women from lower socio-economic backgrounds don't usually even attempt b/f and interviews a number of women about why they didn't want to and what is being done to provide better information to encourage women to make an informed choice.

Think this will take you to the Listen Again page - go to the bottom & click Women's Hour on the Top 5 box (assuming your pc has speakers and you are not at work!)

Compo, for many it is painful throughout? For how long do you mean?

My neighbour was amazed I was feeding 4mo DS when he DD was born - she looked incredulous and said, "But doesn't it hurt?!" - like I was some kind of masochist!

well I persisted for 6 weeks and it was very painful for those 6 weeks - would you call 6 weeks 'the start'? My friend perserved for 3 months with nipple shields because without them her nipples bleed.

Yes, I'd call six weeks the start - that was how long it was painful for me for. And I believe it was only painful because I didn't know how to latch DS on properly - my nipple would come out of his mouth "wedge-shaped" which I now know is wrong.

I didn't ask for help, as I wasn't really sure what was out there (didn't use MN then either!) - I know I'm not alone in that, either.

But cracked and bleeding nipples show that breastfeeding isn't working properly - but it's not an insurmountable problem, with the right support. It's a question of making sure that people know it exists - and also of making sure that people know that it's OK to ring up a breastfeeding counsellor in floods of tears and have a convo that goes along the lines of "But I can't...I just...Oh, God, it hurts, get this baby off me" with snot and tears dripping off their chin.

Nightynight. We've just registered a new three year old at our nursery. Little sis is 10 months old with the remains of a crewcut. We have one muslim mother employee (her DS has a staff place at the nursery) and I've had the colostrum/hair converstaion with her. Colostrum is considered unclean as is baby hair. I'm not sure if it's cultural or religious but it's a fact. I have to add that she is observant as is the new mum at nursery. Maybe it's only carried out by fully practising muslims?

The thing is that I had all the supprt - brilliant midwives who said ds was latched on perfectly. I went to the breast feeding consellor at my hospital and they said the same. Which made it even more frustrating that it hurt so much and I just couldn't see it ever going right because I'd had all the help available iyswim. Don't see what more anyone else could have done

Have also heard the hair thing - and seen the evidence of it at a baby group I used to go to - little boy with full head of hair one week and shaved head the next (mother was possibly not going to be able to attend the ceremony as she had her period, but she fasted all day, iirc and was allowed).

Also, can't see how mentioning this is 'stereotyping.'

Babies, eh, Compo? Little buggers

Seriously though - yes, sometimes all the boxes appear to be ticked (God, I hate that phrase!), but it just doesn't work.

On the class thing, I'm deffo working class and I breastfed all mine, albeit with varying levels of success (DS3 until 15 months tho ). Both my sister's fed, and although one didn't manage it that was due to a premmie baby who couldn't feed and sis was too sick to express.

I can't think of even one friend who didn't bf, either.

I have been laughed at etc, but the best support I ever got (apart from my gorgeous DH) was from a Gypsy Lady who was travelling with the fair in Bridgwater, where I lived. DS3 was very small and I wasn' sure of the bf policy in the cafe we were in. I must have looked anxious, as she came over and told me what a wonderful job I was doing for my baby.

I think she also classifies as 'lower class'!

I don't know about the hair thing. But the colostrum thing isn't in Islam. It's culturalm although the one group I think believes in it, from Bangladesh, is predominantly Muslim.

Not all mw get 4 hours training btw, I did the Unicef baby friendly initiative course on breast feeding and a lot of the midwives in Somerset at least have done this too (many the same time as me)- 3 full days, plus practicals, folders, etc.

Interesting to hear what you all thought. I agree with the general feeling that it's all about peer pressure and doing the same as others around you. There seem to be class related trends but I think you can't assume it's always a class issue.

I thought it was very sad how alot of the young women interviewed just hadn't even considered b/f. They assumed from the start that it would be too painful, too embarassing and that their families/friends would disapprove.

The woman running the b/f support group in Burnley was quite canny when she spoke about ordinary women needing to see other ordinary (working class) women like themselves breast feeding and she was very clear about pointing out the benefits without preaching. I know a couple of pregnant women at work who have no intention of b/f and I have only just managed to stop myself looking horrified and asking why. From what was said on the program though, middle class brown rice lefty types like me (and Laligo!) won't change anyone's mind by going on about b/f though. I'll just have to mutter the odd thing quietly and see if the message gets through bit by bit

It's a slow process but attitudes are changing.

A lot of women who are not from a line of breastfeeders will now say that they'll 'give it a go.' Ten years ago they would have just said 'no.' It is now perceived as a good thing, so hopefully in another ten years it will be seen as the norm.

I've gone into a pretty rough school (in my capacity as a b/feeding mother) with health promotion workers as part of breastfeeding awareness week and had it discussed pretty favourably with me by the (bottle feeding) mothers of those children.

Compo - I go back to what I said earlier 'most'Midwives have only 4 hours in their whole course, b/feeding training - if it was painful that suggests your baby most definetly was not latched on properly (esp as the pain continued for so long) Friends of mine have used the NCT b/feeding consultatants with great success in the first few weeks (even when they weren't in the NCT) I think the NCT is glad to help a Mum who is having problems, they don't go on membership

Agree with others about needing b/feeding 'buddies'and advisors for new Mums who have had problems b/feeding and themselves struggled - they like to have Mums who have experienced it themselves so they can empathise iyswim

I guess I'm a 'middle class' person. Grew up in a lovely home, private education, 'debut' party, university, trips and study abroad, etc. Yet I found bf'ing one of THE most painful things I've ever done. Just bloody awful. I'd stiffen every time she cried, just knowing how terribly painful it was going to be to try to feed her.

I gave her a bottle out of pure desperation, and then felt terrible for it.

I'm foreign and had no idea what resources might be available for women having trouble breastfeeding, was depressed, didn't know about MN .

My mother is of Latin American descent from what is there considered an upper class family. Upper class women in that culture didn't breastfeed for fear of developing sagging breasts. Hell, I was born by scheduled C-section and my mother had a tummy tuck whilst on the table! So it wasn't like I could turn to her for a helping hand - she cut short a shopping trip in Italy when the baby was born.

And that was with me being an educated person. I can only imagine what it might be like for a person who doesn't have such advantages and/or doesn't know anyone - including in her own family - who breastfed.

i didn't and i wouldn't.

however i hope my daughter does. if she has kids which i hope she doesn't.

i think its is a culteral thing within certain sections of society. its not seen as the norm. i seriously thing that balance over the last 5 years has been massivley redressed

hunker and bubble - it is NOT a Muslim belief, as NQC says. thats where the stereotyping comes in, bubble.

Now, my dd, aged nearly 2 has very short hair, and so do most of the indian girls of the same age round where we live. In our case though, its not a custom, its because the children have all just had lice, and dx got a bit carried away when he cut their hair, thinking it would make getting rid of the lice easier!
But if people believed everything that was written on this thread, they could draw the conclusion that we had shaved dd's head when she was small because we believed her hair was unclean!

Some people shave their kids heads so the hair will grow back in thicker. (Which, AFAIK, doesn't work. But it does pass the time until the hair gets thicker by itself, I guess.)

So I would never assume that a shaven-head child had anything to do with uncleanliness (or lice).

Message withdrawn

compo, i think there is a bf = middle-class trend, and i was just reporting what i've noticed - i'm sure there are exceptions.

but re the cost - you would think working class mothers would prefer to breastfeed because it's cheaper, but in reality class doesn't work that way. many impoverished working class/unemployed people can afford to smoke for example which i, who am middle class and affluent, would consider an outrageous expense. also when growing up lefty and brown rice, i was always amazed that working class friends had their own tellies for xmas and foreign holidays, whereas i had a book and a week camping in the lake district

the relationship between class and money is quite complex... and i'm sure peer pressure has far more influence.

Message withdrawn

I'd love to bf for longer, but the reality is I have to go back to work after 3 months, there's no place for me to express and no separate fridge to store milk.

People say, 'Well, they have to provide that for you.' Easier said than done - this is a 300 year old building and we're stretched to the gunners on space.

So buying bottles, teats, etc. isn't just an extra expense for many low-income, working mothers but a necessity.