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Original poster

No fly Zone approved

33 replies

coinoperatedgirl · 18/03/2011 00:42

Whether this is a good or a bad thing, I have no idea, I have read so many conflicting reports. I feel that it must be a good thing, protecting people against Gaddaffi's forces.

However I do fear it may evolve into a very bad thing, another impossible war. Fingers crossed it is short and swift.

OP posts:
slim22 · 18/03/2011 02:06

Finally!
It is already a very bad situation at least the UN is giving a strong statement that they are trying to do the right thing for the people of Lybia. Where this goes from here? beyond a declaration of intention? ......Sad

madwomanintheattic · 18/03/2011 02:25

more overstretch for the armed forces is where it goes from here.

Sad
slim22 · 18/03/2011 05:11

yes madwoman.
Its seems like its everywhere now. I think the UN is trying very hard not to set a precedent for intervening in what is very much an internal civil war. They'd have to intervene pretty much everywhere in Africa!

Chil1234 · 18/03/2011 06:40

I think it's too late.

meditrina · 18/03/2011 07:07

As the Armed Forces and the implications of the Military Covenant haven't been exactly popular on MN recently, then I suppose it has to follow there will be little support here for military action.

GastonTheLadybird · 18/03/2011 08:48

I feel very torn. I feel like we absolutely must do something to help the people of Libya but worry that military action may do more harm than good. Will it just turn a bloodbath into a western inflicted bloodbath instead of a Gaddafi one?

Reckon we should have just assassinated Gaddafi a couple of weeks ago when it all kicked off. (easier said than done!)

Buda · 18/03/2011 08:57

I think it is scary. Can't see him going unless he is taken out somehow and then his son is still there and seems cut from the same cloth.

Given the Lockerbie incident I think the world has suddenly become more dangerous.

GastonTheLadybird · 18/03/2011 09:01

Yes the threats of retaliation are very worrying. He seems mad enough to actually proactively attack the UK, France, etc.

noddyholder · 18/03/2011 09:01

People have already been killed and I fear this is too late and will result in another situation where an unstable country is left in a state where a peace keeping force will be required to police things while they re establish control. Interesting to see who abstained. What about saudi? Gaddaffi has been ruling there like this for 40 yrs and we did nothing.

noddyholder · 18/03/2011 09:02

Gaston I think this is the first time in years where I think that is a distinct possibility Sad

laptopwieldingharpy · 18/03/2011 09:05

Buda I agree
Ghaddafi has become dellusional over the years, the son is likely to be much worse as he was groomed to be the raving mad heir apparent

laptopwieldingharpy · 18/03/2011 09:11

as far as i understand the saudis are not members of the security council and considering the 5 who abstained, unlikely they would have responded to lobbying from them...

UnquietDad · 18/03/2011 09:31

I've only just found it strange on the news this morning, after hearing about him for the past 25 years, that he is Colonel Gaddafi. Colonel? I mean, WTF? How do you get to be head of a country while only being a Colonel? He's not even a Brigadier, let alone a General!

BadgersPaws · 18/03/2011 09:44

"How do you get to be head of a country while only being a Colonel? He's not even a Brigadier, let alone a General!"

After his coup Gadaffi diddled with the ranking system used by the military in his country. It was the prestige of the higher ranks such as "General" that allowed, in part, the military coup to succeed and he wasn't going allow that to happen again.

Colonel might well be about as far as you can get in the Libyan military, it's certainly much closer to the top than the equivalent rank here.

Gadaffi's an interesting mix of complete off the wall bonkers and strangely cunning...

UnquietDad · 18/03/2011 10:00

I didn't know that about the Libyan military ranking system. You learn something every day.

Abr1de · 18/03/2011 10:06

Nah, colonel Gedafty is Valerie Singleton, as pointed out by Private Eye over two decades ago. Have you ever seen them out together at the same time?

Just offer him a hibernating tortoise or a Blue Peter time capsule and he will come scurrying out to make terms.

noddyholder · 18/03/2011 10:25

What will this achieve when the gaddaffi army are currently using tanks on the ground on their own people? Won't it just cause a high risk of innocents being killed?

BadgersPaws · 18/03/2011 10:34

"What will this achieve when the gaddaffi army are currently using tanks on the ground on their own people?"

The rebels have tanks, possibly not as many but some.

What the west is hoping it will do is to level the playing field. Gadaffi seems to have complete control over the air force and air power so he's got complete air superiority, and that's a huge advantage in any conflict.

So taking away the thing that the rebels don't have should allow them more of a chance.

Plus the UN has authorised pretty much anything short of an invasion. So the west could use it's own air power to strike at the pro-Gadaffi military and help the rebels even further.

So not so much about protecting civilians, but helping the rebels, which indirectly should help the civilians.

meditrina · 18/03/2011 10:35

I should think it will be very serious over the next few days. Although some military steps could be taken immediately, it seems likely it would take several days to arrange a comprehensive no-fly zone. Every incentive for the current regime to go in hard in the next 48hours or so, whilst they still can.

laptopwieldingharpy · 18/03/2011 10:37

there is basically no ranking system, he IS the army. its just a title and he kept it as colonel to conjure images of a populist revolutionary "a la che"

noddyholder · 18/03/2011 10:43

Their air planes though are considered a bit ropey I think whereas their ground capabilities more sophisticated? According to sunday times last week! I am quite scared as to where this could lead.I think he will stop at nothing as he literally has nothing to lose now and as someone said earlier his son has been brought up in this regime and is just mark 2

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 18/03/2011 10:52

Verrrry interesting wording.

It's clearly stated as a Chapter VII intervention though.

meditrina · 18/03/2011 10:56

For background:

Link to UN statement on the adoption of Resolution 1973 which also links to the full text.

Link to current memnpbership of the Security Council.

BadgersPaws · 18/03/2011 11:24

"Their air planes though are considered a bit ropey I think whereas their ground capabilities more sophisticated?"

Compared to the wests they probably are ropey.

But when compared to the opposition who don't really have any, and those few that they do have are captured ones of the same quality, that doesn't really matter.

They're still quite capable of air strikes and reconnaissance. Some of the footage that has been shown of "bombers" at high altitude looks more like transport planes and they would be ideal for checking out what the rebels are doing safe in the knowledge that they're so high that the rebels can't do much about them.

You're equipment doesn't have to be cutting edge, just better than what it's going to come up against.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 18/03/2011 11:31

Their planes are good enough for what they need to do even if they're ropey and the pilots aren't particularly reliable.

However the problem with even starting this and keeping Libyan planes grounded is that you then expose your own planes to risk and the worst case scenario would be one of them getting shot down and the pilot not being recovered.