Universal credit - what do you think?

[TheArmadillo]

Can't find a thread on this so thought I'd start one.

here

and here

the things that scare me most about this are

1. all administered by one agency means if something goes wrong with your application or it is delayed you get NOTHING to live off. At least as it stands you get something from other agencies

2. withdrawing benefits completely for turning down job offers is too harsh. What if you have a good reason for turning job offer down (e.g. can't find childcare). YOu leave people again with nothing to live off. Even if it's a feckless parent - what do you do, put the children into care? How much will that cost the state.

3. how will the govt know if you have turned down job offers? They go direct to the applicant don't they. Won't it rely on people telling the govt they have turned down offers?

Going to put kids to bed now but will be back

I don't understand it. However the key point that jumps out to me is

'In future, the government is guaranteeing that for every £1 extra people earn, they will be at least 35p better off as a result of being in work'

Does the include childcare costs? By going out to work I am personally £20,000 ish better off after tax etc. After childcare I have approximately £4000!

I hope this has contingencies for

a) Age of children
b) Childcare costs

I don't think so as money towards childcare costs is going down - tax credits will only cover 70% as opposed to 80%

At the moment the only allowance for age of children is the under 1 bonus thing you get from tax credits - though I have a feeling that is going to be scrapped as well.

What worries me as well as where I work we cover housign benefit so looks like we would lose even more jobs if it all shifted centrally.

I wonder if they will keep childcare support at all.

It is going to cost jobs isnt it.

What I mean by age of children - can you be forced to work when your child is preschool age?

when is this all starting? is it from today or some point in the future?

People won't be able to afford childcare so will have to give up their jobs.But there won't be the benefits to support them.

I don't know about the returning to work thing but I think the idea is that it will be once the hcildren start school, but I can see it getting younger.

2013 it will start - will take 10 years to implement fully as to start with it will only be new applications that it applies to.

£2.1 billion this is going to cost us.

I'm actually pleased with the concept.

The idea that I am taxed and then the money is returned to me in form of a tax credit/child benefit/whatever involving reams of paperwork and conflicting calculations means that process is highly beaurocratic and wasteful.

Why will people not be able to afford childcare

Starts 2013a and tehre's a safety ish net that people wont see a drop as much as a failure to rise.

There are some worrying issues: for a start, one of the things getting us back on track is Dh studying (redundancy, am a carer myself)- ATM his loan counts for HB purposes but not TCs (he works as well)..... without it we couldn;t do it which would be a shame for us and the countries finances. That won't happen when it isn't separated though.

laso one of the possible DLA / PIP changes is to reduce it to 2 levels, indeed a 20% cut is actively the aim. So you will get a group of people with lwoer level disability (according to ATOS anyway) being faced with the choice of taking work they simply cannot do or losing income; a simple scenario would be someone with a milder ASD being told to take a call centre job when they cannot talk on the phone without a panic attack (really common).

I hope eveyone noted the recent ATOS crap though: ATOS assessments for ESA being overturned at Appeal when the client is represented- 70%. So the assessment needs changing, yes? nope: htey are just ending funding for legal aid for this sort of scenario.

Bitter? ifear for my disabled ds's: we cannot move to our home county (beena way studying) becuase the cuts woulda ctively palce them at risk if anything happened to us. exiled by special needs! And a close friend is losing her home potentially after her DH, 65 and injured in a friendly fire incident and with severe PTSD from his time amnongst child suicide bombers in the Yemen, was maliciously reported for being a fraud: he's not, DLA know that but their benefits are on hold anyway

(sorry, bit angry!)

I will say though despite many misgivings I am relieed about the method of introduction- I should qualify in 2013 and start work in September; I was dreading teh few months between April and September but at least know we will not be worse off.

so, in the long run won't this make loads of people that currently do the admin relating to all the benefits unemployed? if that happens surely any costs we cut are lost when we have to pay these people benefits?

Thing is its not just going to be hand in evidence and do one calculation. Each benefit has different rules, different levels of income, different qualifying states so theres going to have to be a different assessment/calculation for each one.

Not all included are assessed on income (i.e. the disabilty related ones).

The laws and guidelines for each benefit are long and complicated. To expect a benefit assessor to know the ins and outs (even just the general rulings) for each one is ridiculous. No one could learn that much information. So you'll get those assessing without the knowledge to do so.

WRT childcare condems are cutting the rate tax credits will pay towards childcare to 70% (instead of 80%) leading to financial problems in familys to cover the differnce.

Nancy it will of course.

Maybe we can get volunteers to run the whole thing anyway? I will take IDS's job: qualified in a related field anyway. See if I can't make a better job of it

TA

there is no confirmation that the TC absorption will see a related extra payment on UC to cover the lost tax credit top up; in fact there is eery silence.

DLA will become PIP and they have retained a whole new fuck up for that alone, and carers thank goodness was kept separate- though no word on HRP as of yet.

Famillies with disability will be exempt from the limit set on claim (so larger famillies will be on same as smaller ones- don;t ever think about taking in a dead sibling's kids or your own grandchildren should soemthing happen) but there is no suggestion that they will get the same 'extras' as now. ATM TC has a disabilty payment credit and a severe disability credit.

I can see alot of not just benefit assesors but admin staff, customer service staff, fraud officers etc being put out of work and not all will be rehired by the new scheme.

Also can you imagine the application form? To request all the information you would need would be ridculously long and complicated. OUr housing and council tax benefit application form as it is is around 37 pages long. A dla application form I think is longer.

What happens if as Scramvonchubby says you get investigated for fraud (regardles of whether you are guilty or not) and your benefits get suspended. That's everything you have to live off - even child benefit. That's without being shown to be guilty.

"
there is no confirmation that the TC absorption will see a related extra payment on UC to cover the lost tax credit top up; in fact there is eery silence"

sorry I'm don't understnad what you mean here (its been a long day and my brain is foggy)

Sorry Armadillo

nbasically when you ahve DLA for a child and work you can also get extra paid with your tax credits- oner rate for middle elvel, higher for severe disability.

Nobody ahs said whether this will still exist under the new system for famillies with a disabled child, or if the only extra they will get is DLA

ah I see, thanks

It does seem like they might use the new system to quietly get rid of some benefits.

they seem to be hitting the disabled very hard at the moment wiht all the new policies - after all DC said before the election.
Pushing people into JSA/ESA and forcing them to look for work for what? There's no jobs out there for those who are unemployed now.

Well quite.

And ATOS are nightmares: reallys cary for people.

I had my benefit suspended last week for taking on two hours a month in owrk: now under this I may have been better off eventually BUT the suspecsion thing whilst they investigate is hugely problematic.

at least at the moment it tends to be only one benefit at a time suspended - imagine if it was all of them at once.

Whats ATOS btw?

also the idea is that the universal credit will be claimed online - when libraries with their free internet connectino have gone. Also it worked so well when tax credits did it - the high rate of fraud meaning it had to be shut down.

ATOS assess the ESA payments and have the contract for PIP that replaces DLA. They are NOT medical professionals- I am not anti assessment, I AM anti ATOS.

70% of ATOS assessments are overturned but only if the Appellant ahs representation and the funding for legal aid has ended.

Something like 30% without are over turned: still high.

their criteria is silly- things like 'can you pick up that button'- my ds3 could despite having severe ASD and possibly never beinga ble to leave our house alone.

If you haven;t filled in teh DLA consultation it's open until midnight IIRC, just google dla consultation: it's guided, scenarios given and you comment, such as should aids somebody already ahs be counted against their DLA- should people in wheelchairs lose DLA as they are now mobile (erm no, specialist cars anyone?). there's a suggestion that children receiving SEN at school will get their DLA deducted to reflect that, even though there is NO LINK in the spending- for example we use ours for special diets, activities, a car to access their schools and sumemr schemes, replacing damaged carpets etc.

I;ve heard rumbles that ATOS have been linked to some suicides but not sure of teh details; a google of ATOS suicide is so incredibly scary but not sure of veracity of the information.

ATOS is a private company...... am I right?

Think so RC, work on a targets led basis as well IIRC

It is due to start in october 2013

So over 2 and a half years away,

then added to that the process of changing people from one system to another will take 10 years (hmm wasn't that the awful mess with CSA going form one system to another, press 1 if you applied before 2001 and press 2 if applied after and press 3 if we have totally cocked up your payments)