Anyone following the Hazel Stewart murder case?

[Sinkingfeeling]

Hazel Stewart case

Yes, just heard about the 18 years. I wonder how many years would have been deducted if she'd just pleaded Guilty instead of having to be found guilty by a jury? After the revelations about how much this cost the taxpayer, I imagine there'll be little sympathy for her (not that there would have been much sympathy even if she'd paid for her own defence).

A diabolical crime; I still can't really believe it happened in my part of NI. It's far more like something I'd expect to read about in an Agatha Christie book. Except for the drugging for sex bits; I can't imagine a Christie book with anything quite like that in it.

I find it extraordinary that she got legal aid.
I also find the £800,000 for that other murderer in NI's defence quite unbelievable. And hes going to appeal

Something wrong with the priority of spending of public funds somewhere.

The point is that there has to be equal access to legal representation and if the State is prosecuting you for murder, and has almost unlimited resources at it's disposal, it's very unbalanced if the defendant doesn't get legal aid.

Especially in a murder case - would lead to more miscarriages of justice is the theory.

Think there's more wrong with the spending on the water service TBH

I've been following this. 20 years ago the police must have just accepted the murder scene completely at face value and not investigated at ALL. Unbelievable. And they (hazel and her former lover and accomplice) had been seen together in 'inappropriate circumstances'.

The whole thing is just such a big mess.

So sad for the families of the two victims.

I've been told the police had suspicions, no matter what is said now, and Colin Howell was questioned at length. But since the autopsies revealed the victims had died from carbon monoxide poisoning and that they had not been drugged beforehand, the puzzle was how they'd been put in the car with no sign of a struggle. It didn't occur to either the police or coroner that they hadn't died from the carbon monoxide in the car, but from carbon monoxide administed to them back in their own houses, before they were put in the car.

It was a clever plan and it worked. Maybe if the police hadn't been so tied up with terrorist stuff they'd have had more time and resources to deal with this case. Hopefully a review of their work at the time will tell us more. Meantime, I'm glad some sort of justice has at long last been done, though of course it won't bring Lesley Howell and Trevor Buchanan back again.

I am staggered at the Legal Aid fee being granted especially when everyone knew she was guilty. The law is a total ass. I do not care about the rules you will all tell me about legal aid. I just hope someone thinks to reclaim it when the Movie is produced, and that Colin or Hazel do not benefit from it (or their children). It will be an Oscar winner. I assume it will be the usual Norn Iron actors... james nesbitt/or the strangely dyed hair that could not withstand a white rinse, Liam Neeson?
The police inspector that was totally useless in the case from Coleraine, should be dragged over the hot coals, even if he is now out. He was useless even when he was in his cushy number in North Antrim area.... Hazel admitted Trevor was boring, so of course she liked the status of her David and his personal assistant role to Hugh..oops sorry.. Sir Hugh annesley.... It makes me sick all of it.... and truly Masonic as it always is when mentioning the RUC.

Iblametheparents - as I understand it, but I could be wrong, there are moves already underway to recover money/assets from Hazel Stewart that she gained from the proceeds of her crime. And from Colin Howell as well IIRC.

I just feel so sorry for the children - at the end of the day all the kids in the case have had a parent murdered, by the other parent.

Surely it doesn't get much harder than that for them to have to deal with?

I feel sorry for her children too, and her new husband. She obviously never said, "oh, by the way, got a bit mixed up in a double homicide, but it was mostly my x lover's fault". Her kids and her husband look really devastated.

I know the RUC weren't the world's brightest, but one would have thought even they would have looked at these "suicides" more closely.

The RUC's failure to investigate properly meant that CH and Hazel Stewart got away with it for so long

sorry to barge in at this late stage (have been lurking since feb)

i still can't get my head around of all of this and it was the topic of a conversation today

i can't find the link, but apparantly there was a story ran at the weekend in one of the irish papers that hazel stewart was having an affair prior to being arrested and was on the very of leaving current husband

could this possibly be true?

it will definitely be made into a film

can't even start to imagine how the children are coping - it must be like dealing with a death; the disbelieve, the anger, the acceptance

The children (teenagers) definitely still in the denial phase. Are you guys in Ireland? if so you will have heard of Eamonn Lillis who murdered his wife Celine, and claimed it was a burglary gone wrong. To begin with his daughter was believing his story even when the gardai had forensic evidence, extremely damning forensic evidence. She was visiting him jail and weeping for him and his plight. NOw, that relationship has broken down completely. His daughter now lives with her maternal aunt and uncle and she is not in any communication with her father at the moment apparently. So poor Hazel's children. They'll have their eyes forced open soon enough. Denial giving them strength to get through the court case though.

i think you are right valium, denial did give them the strength

i am in northern ireland, but was aware of the Lillis case - the poor daughter, must have been horrible when she started to piece together the story

I've family in NI too, and have been following - with open jaw - this case too, it beggars belief really,

Those poor kids! (and her husband)

Like you say, sleepy Castlerock, who would have ever thought?

Think I just read not long ago that her husband and kids are going to stand by her?? Or appeal?

Oh yea, will definately be a movie, I see Liam Neeson as the dentist, James Nesbit as her husband....

And local girl Jayne Wisner for the role of Hazels daughter?

The story about HS having an affair is common currency in this area (I'm in Coleraine) and beyond, but I don't know if it's true. I've been told it's been common knowledge for some time now and I know someone who was told the name of the man supposedly involved but, as I said, I've no idea if it's true or not. No doubt there may be futher revelations to come; I'm sure the press will be ferreting out as many 'secrets' as they can.

Yes, the kids are in denial, and rather pathetic it was to see them and hear them, especially as they showed they hadn't taken in exactly what Hazel Stewart herself had said in her police interviews. Her husband surprised me more than her children, though, with his contention that she hadn't believed Howell really meant to do it, that he was only fantasising. That doesn't fit in with what she told police, when she talked about them having a plan, and that she encouraged her husband to take the sedative because she knew what was coming, also making sure there was room in the garage for Howell's car. I was also surprised to hear her husband say it would have been better for the whole thing never to have come out - better for him and her kids and of course for HS herself, I dare say, but not better for the other relatives of the victims who deserve to know the truth. For an ex-chief superintendent to suggest the truth about a double murder might be better kept hidden was to me surprising and rather worrying.

It's expected she will appeal, but most people seem to be of the opinion that it won't get far, because of what she admitted to in the final police interview. Also the 'under Howell's spell' thing is extremely unlikely to cut any ice with anyone who hasn't had a lobotomy.

Iseult, i watched the spotlight show from last monday just last night and i'm still processing what her husband said at the end. you are right, it was surprising what he said.

i really wish i could find the news story. i was told it actually says something along the lines off..."we stand by this story, and for legal reasons we can;t name the other man at this moment in time"

i think she will appeal but like her husband, i think she will appeal on the grounds of what she was charged with - Murder. I feel she should have been charged with something else. surely murder means you actually delivered the final blow? and although what she did was so wicked, she didn't actually deliver the final blow?

i think she will be out within the year

I too watched the Spotlight show last night and was open mouthed by the denial and support from the family. I was shocked by the sisters too stating that they too would be there for her.

But I think that there is often denial in families over many issues and this is a bigger version of the same.

But also the children are in shock and also the husband. Over time they will process the information and I think they may change their views and feelings.

I also found amazing the statements from current husband about how he and Hazel were Christians. The children also said it. But the list of what Hazel has done is so against all Christian teaching, 10 commandments etc that it just leaves you wondering how they square everything in their mind.

I was thinking also for the children it is an incredible psychological position to be in, to be brought up by one loving parent, be very close to them and then find out they have done something very bad.

I just hope they have access to good long term counselling.

Im also left wondering if Colin Howell was the only manipulatively skilled individual here -Hazel seems to have done a great job at it in her own style.

No, for murder you don't need to deliver the blow, you don't even need to be there when someone is killed. If you're part of a plan to murder anyone, you can be convicted of murder. If someone gets someone else to do a murder for them, such as hiring a hit-man, then they're as guilty of murder as the one who does the actual physical killing. Hazel Stewart's husband would know this better than most, given the job he did for years. He'll have seen many terrorists jailed for their part in murders, many of whom didn't fire the fatal shot or plant the lethal bomb.

The judge told the jury they had to ask themselves in this case 'Were they in it together?' because, if so, they were both guilty of both murders. If HS hadn't known of the plan, if she hadn't admitted 'WE had a plan' and 'I could have stopped it', that would have been a different situation where indeed the correct charge might have been of aiding and abetting, or perverting the course of justice. But this case comes under the heading of 'joint enterprise', ie something planned by both, though they played different roles in ensuring the desired outcome.

The judge when sentencing took into account that the plan had been dreamed up by Howell and that he had taken the more active role, but Stewart's 'junior partner' role didn't mean she wasn't guilty of murder. She had had ample opportunity to disclose the plan to the proper authorities, to stop the murders, but she didn't. It was their plan and she continued her part in it, thus two people were killed.

If she appeals - and she probably will - it will most likely be on the grounds that she was 'controlled' by Howell, that she was 'under his spell'. Frankly I don't think any such appeal will get very far, simply because there is nothing AFAIK to suggest this is true. She was influenced by him, no doubt, but that is no defence to murder or any other serious crime as I think the prosecution lawyer pointed out at one stage. Maybe they'll try for a shorter sentence, I don't know.

In this BBC report it says that it is understood that her lawyers will appeal: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12806751

very interesting Iseult40 - i get what you are saying - she was part of the plan....

i wonder how her family reconcile the fact that ok, yes she was controlled, and yes, i can see how they can understand she never thought he would do it, but she sorted out the garage, she encouraged/gave him a sleeping tablet, she let colin howell into the house - was that not the time to realise it really was happening?

then, she took her widows pension. is this something she had to actively apply for or would it have happened automatically?

and, how did she finally "get out of his clutches"? if he was as controlling as they say, how did she break free some years later?

still so many unanswered questions

Hi, timeforachangearooney, I think the family are in what P G Wodehouse would have called 'stout denial' mode, simply unable and/or unwilling to accept what she herself said. Just keep on saying No, no matter what. Very sad, though maybe understandable.

I presume the police widow's pension would have been paid automatically, though I could be wrong about that. She would also have got some sort of widow's pension or widowed mother's allowance from the state, of course.

As for 'getting out of his clutches', it looks as though she just decided not to stay with him for the longterm, even though they resumed their affair after the murders and were together for several years. He asked her to marry him, she just said No. The letter Howell wrote to her shortly after the murders, pleading with her to stay with him, didn't sound very much like he was in control in the relationship.

As you say, many unanswered questions. Maybe some will be answered at the appeal? It'll be interesting to see on what grounds the appeal will be based; my guess is the 'under Howell's spell' or the 'terrified of him' one, but we'll see. Can't see any appeal judge being naive enough to overturn the unanimous jury decision that she - as she herself admitted - was in on the plan and could have stopped it.

BTW, here's a link to a very interesting case where 4 people were convicted of a murder recently, though it's thought only one did the actual stabbing:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-12391541

Two 22-year sentences, plus one of 20 years, and even the 16-year-old detained for 18 years years - severe sentences, but murder is murder and sentences need to reflect people's abhorrence of it and also serve as a warning to others.

interesting Iseilt about stout denial - can see how the perpatrator would do it and probably over time start to believe their own version

if they so strongly believe, why did no one talk about why she didn't take the stand?

will this form part of the retrial, that if it goes ahead, she will take the stand?

I read somewhere that she would take the stand, but whether or not it's true is again anyone's guess. She had a chance in court to get her story over to the jury but she decided not to. Maybe she thinks judges are more easily convinced than jurors? More gullible? I don't know anyone who believes she had no choice in the matter of the killings, that she was 'under Howell's spell' - whatever that might mean. The most anyone is prepared to believe is that she was in love with him and he influenced her, but isn't everybody influenced by somebody? It's no defence to a charge of murder, of course. All she had to do was tell the police, tell her husband, tell anyone, and Lesley and Trevor would be alive today.

Someone I know raised an interesting point: what would she have done if Howell had been coming to kill her children instead of, or as well as, her husband? Would she have kept quiet then? Not told her husband, not told the police? Just let him in with his hosepipe and got clothes to put on their bodies too? I can't help wondering if her children have ever thought of that themselves and the unavoidably very uncomfortable answers they'd be bound to come up with.

Well, you can bring up all sorts of reasons, but murder is murder