Inflexible and stressful work harming families, says Nick Clegg - do you agree and if so what should be done about it?

[KatieMumsnet]

The government says it wants to do more for hard-pressed working families, and is launching a report on maternity, paternity, employment and community involvement

Whaddya think?

and how much is the report and think-tank costing?

he could have come on here and we could have told him all that for nowt. 'cept I reckon he'd be toooooo scared

I reckon it's just Cameron keeping him busy - 'run along and do us a little report on family matters and all that. There's a love'.

i dont want my husband home for 10 months when i have had a baby! grrrr lol

HerBeatitude, that's a fair point about Clegg's broken promises vs Cameron's. For me, the difference is that Cameron is the leader of the Tory party. Of course he's going to lie like a fucking rug. That's what Tories do.

But Clegg had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to actually show just a tiny bit of integrity and backbone but he blew it in spectacular style. All he's shown is that he's no different from the rest of the lying, greedy, unprincipled and uncaring venal bastards.

Yes I really think he's destroyed his party. They think that what will save them, is the vote on PR. But it won't, because everyone hates them so much now, that they will vote against it even if they've always broadly supported PR. And when everyone votes against it, the rest of the lib dems will wake up and realise that there is absolutely no point in going along with the tories.

Snorbs - not keen on him then ;)

I agree - if they had held firm on the PR/AV issue and said this is our sticking point, no negotiation, or no coalition, I might have more time for him. But no, one whiff of power and he/they sold their souls....

This is such a rubbish promise.Don't know of any fathers who would take this time off anyway.They would worry about effect on their careers.What the government needs to do is shorten mens working day.My father in law worked until 5 o clock.My mother in law new when he would be home so she could plan her evenings,which included some volunteer work.

Dh really loved the few weeks he ahd off with the boys; 2 with the last 3, 3 with ds1 but onlyl becuase MW asked his boss to extend leave due to me being too ill still after complications (eclampsia, BP still raised).

Would he have wanted a much longer extension? Well for sure not now: he's self employed and it would be impossible. Before? Well he hated that job so maybe LOL but he'd have benefitted far more from some midway- eg being able to negotiate a limited term of half days or maybe late starts on appropriate pay levels- say a satrt at ten so he could help with getting boys to school whilst I fed ds's, then losing an hour's pay.

But it was all about being able to be flecxible and still maintain an income, and back then we were lucky that we had some possibility of manoevre, we wouldn't now (job long gone).

hmm, as someone who works in the charity sector (aka ConDem nation's Big Society), I'd like to say my parental stress would be reduced by your government not snatching funding away from every sector I am qualified to get a job in...
My current job - which is lovely and family friendly and flexible and helps my community is about to evaporate. Thanks! :)

Anyway am expecting mergency services to be next target- judging by the email about shocking (their words) inefficiencies by emergency services staff from our LD AM that just arrived in our inbox; theya lways precede the next cut I notice......

So much spinning it's a onder they don;t drill themselves into the earth....

" like the one about changing the rules so a woman can pass any unused Maternity leave (up to six months) onto the father to use - well, yes, like that is going to make a blind bit of difference if you are only receiving the statutory minimum £124.88 per week "

It would have helped us a huge amount. I am the main earner and DH would have very much liked to stay at home with the children when they were tiny.

It might help to even the balance a little between the sexes - not only will it be illegal to discriminate against women of child-bearing ages but also much more difficult if either parent could take the time off who do you avoid employing

"They would worry about effect on their careers."

What about the effect on women's careers about taking maternity leave? It's about time fathers were willing to take the same financial, social and career hits that having children involves, as mothers do.

Parental leave only works when: a) A part of parential leave can only be used by the father. Like in Norway. There are 3 months of the first year which are the father's allocation. Its a "use it or loose it" scheme which basically means men are more likely to take it. b) The state pays the parental leave, not the employer. Again, Norway is a pretty good example. There the state provides 80-100% coverage of your salary while your on leave, which enables your employer to hire at temp while your away on leave. This means men and employers are slowly coming round to the idea. I don' think any society can really change without injection of state cash to instill the changes culturally/socially first. That takes a lot of cash and a good few years. Which leads me neatly to my question for Nick Clegg. Where's the cash?

Agree hugely; the grant I was supposed to get to enable me to complete my last 2 years towards a job that pays enough to cover SN childcare has just evaporated, I can now only qualify if I can locate £2000k in a year from a Carer's income of £53 per week. Hmmm.

I do agree with Orm and Herbe, but there are so many oher things they can do to enhance employability as well and they focus on such a narrow range of changes. None of this is new; there is no original thinking.

But my point is, as I have said before, the paternity leave change will only work if there is realistic SMP! This is tokenism at best, 'oh look we have allowed you to share the maternity leave' Great, but we can't afford to share it!. I was (I admit) lucky, I was the main breadwinner and I went back at four months, dp stayed with ds for a further month and then worked part time (but he was an academic and thus was being paid in the fifth month (summer break...). This change doesn't go far enough...

Wise words from most.

People are hard-pressed because of cuts and increasing taxes at a time of rising inflation.

An idiot can see that. Right, Clegg?

I would like to see the flexible working legislation sured up and actually given some bite,rather than the token gesture that now exists.

Employers have a duty to consider a request. "We have considered your request and it just seems like too much effort so no" "oh we didn't stick to the proper timescales and procedures? Sorry about that never mind eh"

What is the point of that legislation?

I find most of the responses to this thread quite depressing.

Of course it's true that we can't trust Nick Clegg or the Lib Dems, and this may not be worth the paper it's written on. But surely our response should be: yes, about time too, we want nothing less than full equality in the parental leave system and will fight and fight until we get it.

To all those saying: hardly anyone could afford to take this. First of all, that's not quite true. My husband and I earn roughly the same, and there are a number of professional couples where this is the case pre-children. Where men earn more, think about why this is. Often, it's because men have prioritised their careers and they don't then lose years of said careers to maternity leaves and childcare. Addressing the parental leave system is the only way to begin to address the pay inequality.

I know we are in the middle of the recession but I find it deeply depressing to see young women on TV arguing that 'business' can't afford this. Oh, but let's just keep our entire sex massively disadvantaged for a few more decades, that's just fine.

And as for whoever suggested 'shorter working days for men' being a more important priority for women - have we all slipped into an episode of Mad Men?

I just don't think we can afford to be so cynical on this issue. Yes, the Lib Dems may well break this promise too but then they should be viciously criticised and punished for it, as they are for those promises already broken. I honestly think this is single most important political issue for women today, and should be treated accordingly.

'I just don't think we can afford to be so cynical on this issue.'

Increasingly, people are finding it hard to afford the basics thanks to this Coalition.

' I honestly think this is single most important political issue for women today

Really? That depends a lot surely.

I think those who can find a job and have access to childcare at all have it better than they know: I am NOT saying easy but it's a pretty helpful start!

Childcare accessible and affordable to all- now that'd be good all-woman aim (well, parents anyway) that wouldn;t just drop entire sectors such as carers.

And as for shorter working days for men- well actually there is some milage to that, to an extent: flexibility. Dh being able to wangle an earlier start with a later finish when the older boys were small meant I could get an evening job and we could both work.
Not so much shiorter perhaps, he did same as everyone else, but different hours. And that was long before family friendly rules came in so yes, giving oomph to those would help enormously.

I wasn't saying that shorter/flexible working for men in itself wasn't a good thing - obviously any flexibility for parents is a great thing. But just that this isn't the main aim that women should aspire to.

And of course anyone who can find a job is lucky in the current climate. But this is a discussion about men and women who are both working being able to share their leave.

But there is still absolutely no reason not to aim for total equality in the parental leave system, for anyone who wants and can afford it. Anything less is a statement that women are the ones who should do childcare, and there careers suffer accordingly. Don't know how anyone can justify that today.

I am surprised that there have not been more supportive posts.

I am fully in support of the Clegg proposal that men share maternity/paternity leave. When DS2 was born I took time of and got paid nothing and endured quite a bit of attitude from colleagues and employer.

Listening to Sky News debate on his with Adam Boulton and Sarah Jackson from Working Families and (I think) a man from the British Chamber of Commerce. The man was arguing that it would damage business if men had the right to take a week here and a week there - scattering paternity leave over many months with constant disruption to the business. That is fair enough but in reality I just think business organisation will oppose whatever is proposed, even if a man were limited to say taking a single chunk of paternity leave up to a maximum of 6 months.

As Sarah Jackson rightly pointed out, women would really be equal to men if this came in because employers would no longer have an incentive to get rid of women and think they were in the clear on avoiding maternity leave IF all the men also had a right to take it as well.

They had an online poll and 67% of respondents supported sharing of maternity/paternity leave so that is good.

My understanding is that it is the unpaid leave that parents will be able to swap.

Couples to share maternity leave

Whoop de do, not many people can afford to take unpaid leave unless they absolutely have to!

This swap would certainly benefit my friend who earns a lot more than her DH - but I think it is fair to say the majjority of women are the lower earner in the family.

It isn't right but we have to be realistic about this because there is still a hell of a lot of inequality in men's pay versus women.

DH and I both work for the same organisation, are both at the same grade and earn about the same. Yet I was the only one who could take leave when DS was born (apart from 2 weeks paternity leave). Many companies have policies above the statutory minimum, and I would expect and hope, that the paid leave currently given to women will now also be available to men (presumably it will be sex discrimination not to?).

Companies often avoid hiring women of childbearing age, in case they take maternity leave - which discriminates against all women whether they choose to have children or not. This policy will mean that they run the same risks when hiring men as women - which should mean fairer treatment for women over time.

I think this policy is a really good step in the right direction - just a shame it wasn't brought in years ago.

Really good post Joanne - it's true that before the first child, many couples don't have such a massive pay gap and it is precisely that first maternity leave and then subsequent ones after, that widens it.

BB, I think that posts haven't been supportive because no-one believes a word Nick Clegg says anymore and no-one has any faith whatsoever, that he can push anything through.

Do things for hard working families? with the drop in HB, the mass sackings of bottom of the pile council workers, complete and utter destruction of the social housing system and rise in VAT. I think the ConDems have done more then enough.