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Boy who threw fire extinguisher during student protests jailed

112 replies

bobthebuddha · 11/01/2011 14:30

For 2 years and 8 months. Not condoning his actions in any way, but having read what his mother had to say I find myself feeling for her and him. Not a popular position I daresay.

If I'd been in her position I freely confess would have actively discouraged my son to hand himself in knowing that a) no-one had been hurt, dangerous as his action was b) he would be likely to be 'made an example of' (in the week that a man found guilty of severely beating a 2 year old walked free from court) and c) his life would indeed be 'ruined'. I hope I never find myself in that position once DS reaches 18...

OP posts:
Strawbezza · 11/01/2011 20:09

This sentence is lenient. If he hadn't been persuaded to hand himself in he'd have been caught anyway due to the huge amount of CCTV footage, and given a longer sentence.

He could have killed someone. It was a completely premeditated action and he deliberately tried to hit the police.

Yes, other crimes do have ridiculously short sentences in comparison, but that's a whole new issue.

alicatte · 11/01/2011 22:01

Ooh all the same people as were on the other thread.

I still feel the same too.

I feel very sorry for his mother and, after reading the other thread, increasingly sorry for him too.

kate1956 · 12/01/2011 01:22

Amazing though isn't it - he gets a custodial sentence for doing something stupid that didn't actually hurt anyone while the copper who killed Ian Tomlinson, was caught on film doing it, lied along with the Met about what happened is merely suspended on full pay - what a great justice sytem we have!

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 02:19

I don't understand why so many people are acting like this was a harmless teenage prank.

What on earth do you think he was attempting to do at the moment he threw that fire extinguisher at the crowd? In this instance what could have happened is relevant, as he would have known (hoped) that the extinguisher could have killed someone. I'd say intent to hurt/kill is pretty major.

Say someone shot a gun into a crowd? If by some miracle it missed would you still be arguing that the sentence was too harsh? That extinguisher was a weapon the minute he launched it over the side of the building.

GiddyPickle · 12/01/2011 08:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

begonyabampot · 12/01/2011 12:34

Wonder if the mother only told him to come forward as she knew it was only time till he was caught and that coming forward would work in his favour. I honestly don't know if I would have told my son to come forward for this or something like this (if he might not be found)and see him jailed considering no-one was hurt though obviously we would be furious, disgusted and disappointed. If someone had been hurt that would have been different. I honestly don't know what I would be in that situation. A close young male relative was caught putting sticking tape from lampost to lampost in his estate (we are still at a loss to how he didn't see the danger and could be so stupid) - it was an unmarked police car which was the first car through (would loved to see his face when the copper got out)and picked him up and brought him home with just a warning and slap on the wrist.

I think this boy/ man deserved what he got though.

edam · 12/01/2011 18:56

I dunno, it's the contrast with sentences for other offences that bothers me, and the suspicion that he got extra because police officers could have been hurt. If you look at the way police services and individual officers are treated when they behave with similar carelessness for injury - even when people are killed - there's a huge double standard. Look at poor Mr Tomlinson killed because he walked down the street on the day of the G20 protest. Look at endless deaths in police custody.

Someone who could have harmed a police officer gets a draconian penalty, when police officers harm people - even in the most serious cases when they have clearly broken the law - they are rarely brought to justice and even when they are, the penalties are far less.

(Before anyone leaps on me, I am not anti- the police generally, I merely believe justice means equal treatment.)

2shoes · 12/01/2011 18:58

but there wern't only police there, he could have hit a protester, someones child....

edam · 12/01/2011 18:59

Oh yes, of course, but I suspect the fact that he could have hurt an officer was crucial in sentencing.

Tanith · 12/01/2011 19:12

During the Miner's strike, two young miners threw a concrete slab off a bridge and killed a taxi driver. They never meant to kill anyone, but they did. They were sentenced to life. I don't think this man's sentence is excessive in comparison.

edam · 12/01/2011 20:56

Yes but in sentencing terms there is a massive gap between killing someone and not killing someone.

Hammerlikedaisies · 12/01/2011 21:35

Agree with Edam and Lalalonglegs, and anyone else who feels any compassion for the young man.

I heard someone important on the radio saying how he thought it was OK for the judge to give him a tough sentence in order to use him as an example to discourage others. It's clear that is what has happened here. He's been sent to prison purely and simply to show other students that they can expect to be treated really severely if they get carried away at demos. Another time, another judge and he'd have been let off with a caution. How is that fair?

Our jails are full to bursting with people who shouldn't be there.

And he's not the first person to have done anything stupid, dangerous and illegal when young. Or were you all angels?

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 21:55

Angels? You hardly have to be an angel not to attempt to harm others by aiming a heavy object at their heads from 7 floors above them! This isn't a prank, this is intent to harm! Which is quite rightly punishable!

GiddyPickle · 12/01/2011 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2shoes · 12/01/2011 22:20

"how is it fair"
it is fair that if your actions could cause someones death (which would have been the most likely outcome had it hit someone) you are punished.
he didn't get life, he got 2 years 8 months, he won't serve that long, he might even appeal and have it reduced, but at least he will have been punished.
yes he is young, but no doubt so were the people below who he might have killed.

Hammerlikedaisies · 12/01/2011 22:22

Nah. He didn't intend to harm anyone. He got carried away, probably because he's rather immature - most people are at his age - and showing off.

I once went on a Reclaim the Night march against violence against women (20 or 30 years ago) and we stormed a sex cinema, and I was at the front and suddenly my friend slapped the manager in the face. I don't know who was more horrified - him or her. Her arm just came up and wham! She didn't hurt him because she's 5 foot nothing and he was a big man, but it was totally out of character and she certainly didn't intend to do it. She got completely carried away. I hate to think what would have happened to her if she had come up against the judge who sentenced the student who threw the fire extinguisher down.

When you're young, and in a huge crowd, you do things you wouldn't do otherwise. I'm not excusing what he (or my friend) did, I'm just explaining it. And the thing is that no thought of possible long prison sentences would ever enter your head at a time like that - so to make an example of the poor man is as useless as it is injust. Imo.

2shoes · 12/01/2011 22:27

Nah. He didn't intend to harm anyone.

do you really believe that??
Tbh I am shocked that people think that an 18 year old can't work it out.

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 22:28

He didn't intend to harm anyone? What was he doing then? Playing catch? Hmm

As others have pointed out, either he intended to hurt someone (by aiming a heavy object at a crowd seven storeys below him + logical conclusion = serious injury/death), or he has no concept of cause and affect and therefore no problem endangering others lives? Which one would you say? And do you think either option is someone you want on the streets?

Maybe you'll answer my question, if it had been a gun rather than a fire extinguisher aimed at the crowd would you still be arguing the sentence was too harsh?

SecretNutellaFix · 12/01/2011 22:30

He's lucky.

2 years 8 months? He could have got life if it had hit and killed someone. Voluntary manslaughter, if not murder.

I have no sympathy for him. He was an ass. He should be punished.

woollyideas · 12/01/2011 22:37

KalokiMallow - taking a gun to a demo would seem to suggest a premeditated intent to shoot someone.
I doubt this bloke took the fire extinguisher with him...

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 22:40

I'm talking about the act of aiming something dangerous into a crowd. Is there any difference between a bullet and the fire extinguisher there?

2shoes · 12/01/2011 22:41

I do wonder it people would be so sympathetic if this hadn't been a student "protester"
imaging he was a football fan and caught up in the crowd he had done this, would you say it was ok then and feel sorry for him.......?? I doubt it very much, yet imo there is no difference

Hammerlikedaisies · 12/01/2011 22:41

Kaloki, if he had a gun he would have come prepared. He just grabbed whatever was to hand. Yes, he was stupid, and it was dangerous behaviour. But again - what is putting him in prison going to achieve? It won't deter other stupid, reckless young people, and it wrecks his life. Also, we now have to pay to support him in prison. Why not give him community service? Now there's a punishment that might teach him something and would be proportionate.

All this 'what if he killed someone?' is irrelevant. He didn't. Another friend of mine was driving her car at 10 mph when a child ran out in front of her. The child was OK, but what if she had killed him? Put people who drive cars in prison - just in case they kill someone? A lot of the things you do every day could kill someone. You can't put people in prison for things they might have done but didn't.

However, you do have to punish people for doing dangerous things, even if they didn't intend to hurt anyone. So punish him. Community service.

edam · 12/01/2011 22:41

Yes of course he should be punished - for what he actually did. Which did not including killing anyone, thankfully, and did not include premeditation. The point is the sentence seems out of line when you compare it with other sentences reported in the media and take into account a guilty plea.

We really need one of our MN magistrates on this thread!

KalokiMallow · 12/01/2011 22:42

hammer I'm talking about the act of aiming something dangerous into a crowd. Is there any difference between a bullet and the fire extinguisher there?