Is this common knowledge?

[MrsDoolittle]

I have just read this article in yesterday's Guardian and I am interested in your response to this. Guardian article
Is this common knowledge amongst us or not? I have discussed this with dh at length and we don't agree.
He always assumed we would have not fertility issues with having children in our 30's, I never shared this opinion.

Given that Triplets had her (er, triplets!) at about the age of 48 by IVF, I tend to believe that fertility treatment after the age of 40 can be very very very successful....

That said, I was convinced by many media stories that I would have fertility problems by the time I was in my early 30s, so much so that I "carelessly" managed to produce DS1 and DD without meaning to, in my early 30s. The media hype sure had me fooled. So, to me, it's very common knowledge that fertility declines as you get older (except, seemingly, for women in my family tree).

LOL Tribpot

ha ha ha tribpot, more proof that God's a man. Talking of adoption, I had a friend who was ttc from her early 20's and in her late 20s looked into adoption - they were told there was absolutely no chance of them being accepted for adoption because of their age difference (her dh is 10 years older than her)

I have seen nothing in this recent press regarding quality of mens sperm going down with age - I know if instances where the dh is a fair bit older than the mother and they have had a downs syndrome baby

• I know its not the same topic but have read studies done on this which confirm the quality decreases, and there is a higher chance of downs syndrome - where's all the articles on that then? Are these articles written by men? (goes off to check link)

I think it's a bit confusing trying to interpret things like this if you don't know the nature of statistics, and I'd be at the top of that list.

The media tend to misrepresent stats alot when they see a sudden difference in numbers but have no idea how it's significant or how to regognise a trend.

Tut, recognise!

Common knowledge I thought

Commonly believed, I think, as opposed to knowledge.

I've said before that there is also, I think, a cultural interest in telling us we're completely past-it and undesirable by 35. So when we 'defy' that by producing children - as a hell of a lot of us do, without any treatment whatsoever - we're also defying the 'logic' that tells us we're undesirable and on the scrapheap.

Personally I think fertility is intensely individual and I'm not overly convinced that age affects us all in the same way.

There have been a few stories about male infertility like this one . "DNA damage was far higher in men over 45 than in younger men - men aged 45 had double the damage of those younger than 30."

But because the media is dominated by men it's all very low key and they don't admit there is a male fertility 'time bomb'. Instead they perpetuate the romantic myth of CHarlie Chaplin et al fathering babies in their 80s or whatever. It's all a conspiracy for men to enjoy a Peter Pan commitment-free lifestyle as long as they can get away with it!

of course it's individual MI- the article says that- but if you look at population statistics then fertility does decline after 35 (speeds up after 40) and also rate of chromosomal problems follows a similar pattern (Incidentally there seems to be a slight increase in fertility right before the menopause- which is interesting).

The thing with men is slightly different- it's been known for a while that male fertility does decrease and also that there are some chromosome effects (although to a lesser degree than in women), but you have to take into account things ike sperm competition as well. If (not saying they are but if) sperm carrying chromosome defects were slower swimmers then that would be less of a problem in men. Also a slight reduction in fertility will have less of an effect on men as they have millions of the blighters to choose from.

I think if women are delaying the start of childbearing in order to further their career then it is worth knowing that they take a risk- might not be a huge risk, but it is a risk. No point denying it exists. I suspect however than most delays are for the reasons aloha mentions below (lack of partner etc).

I take your point, Jimjams, I just know how very horrible it is to be in your mid-30s, and without a partner, and convinced that even if you do find someone who is prepared to love you you've missed the boat for fulfilling the hope of children you've had all your life. I would hate other women to feel that unecessarily.

onset of periods has become younger in western society with better nutrition etc but menopausal age has remained static apparently

I thought women are born with a finite number of eggs - if we're shedding them earlier wouldn't we run out earlier too?

the menopause is really poorly understood muminlondon. I went to a talk about it avbout 10 years ago and can remember next to nothuing of it- except that.

this is interesting though.

Charlie Chaplin? Didn't he also have a hankering for very young girls?

I think I've always been aware that fertility decreases with age but Aloha's statistic that "up to nearly 70% of 40 year olds are probably still fertile" shocked me. I think I assumed that something like 90% of women would still be fertile at that age, not a mere 70%.

In the Blood : a genetics book by Steve Jones, he talks at length about dodgy sperm from aged fathers. For instance, he reckons that the appearance of hemophilia in Queen Victoria's grandsons was due to the advanced age of Queen Vic's father.

If you ever get the chance to hear Steve Jones speak- go- he is fantastic.

I have a feeling he's big into killer sperm etc as well- supposedly a lot of the mishapen 2 headed sperm are there to seek out and destroy competitor's sperm. I am very out of date on sperm competition though.

i know i have bleated on about this before but but but

my husbands gran had two children during the change, one at 50 and one at 51. She had 11 children in all

oh and it was my FIL that was the baby, thank goodness, else I wouldnt have my husbanmd or my two babies

muminlondon - I wondered about that too but read recently that menopause is purely a hormonal thing and not related to the number of eggs you have left. In other words, after the menopause you have eggs left but not the hormones to set everything working - we're born with loads more eggs than we'll ever need.
Each cycle the body tries to release the prime eggs and as we get older there is in theory less of these which is what can increase abnormalities as we age.

jimjams, i've worked with steve (and sometimes see him on the 29 bus!), he's v entertaining

I may be completely off the point here but I've always thought of children as a blessing and not a right.

It makes me uncomfortable when people react angrily to reports like this because some medical facts cannot be denied and male/female equality doesn't really come into it. It's just how are bodies are designed.

Some people will have difficulty conceiving at any age, some people will have difficulty conceiving at a later age - but if someone has had to delay starting a family because they haven't met the right person or has too much financial responsibility then I don't mean to sound harsh but that's life. I know people who opted to have just one child because of financial/health reasons - they have just accepted the situation.

I'm also resigned to having one child because I had my first at 38 and DH is several years older than me. It's not just reduced fertility and increased risk of abnormalities that affects the decision - or even the biological reality - but also the lack of energy as we get older. Our fathers both died in their 50s and 60s which is also a consideration. It's just such a shame we didn't meet 10 years previously.

I don't think I even thought about these things in my 20s (not that I met anyone suitable at the time). When you're young you really don't think ageing is something that will happen to you - all those old people were born that way!

actually I was still 37 but senility is setting in early...

Saadia actually it is a right these days! Article 12 of the Human Rights Act is The right to marry and found a family