Panarama gaming investigation

[Ryoko]

I'm really not looking forward to this tonight another lets bash gaming, games are evil load of crap I expect.

So apparently it's about the fact psychologists have wasted time to find out that gaming uses a risk and reward strategy to make people want to continue to play, did they get paid to find that out?, they could have just tried playing one then they would have realised that.

It's as old as the hills, you need to keep people playing the title to the end, just as you need to make people want to continue watching the show or film, other wise they will wonder off and do something else, not invest in the next game, not watch the next episode in the TV series etc, it's a method used by all media, even celebrity filled monthly rags.

Of course this has been going on since the creation of gaming in the 1960's what has really changed things today is the advent of online gaming, which is a totally different kettle of fish and a massive catch 22 for the industry.

Online gaming has exploded over the years as it's an addition to our social interaction, titles such as WOW are nothing more then a fantasy pub, why go out with your mates in real life and discuss your boring life and job when you can hang around with your guild as a brave sir knight making a difference to the world on your quest, it's like a dream a fantasy of yourself actually being important with the addition of people to talk to and be friends with, COD is similar only on a much smaller scale. the catch-22 for the industry being of course how to make us buy the new one over the one with have been comfortably inhabiting over the last 12 months or so, hence the creation of downloadable content as an extra revenue stream to make up for the fact we are buying less games and playing the few we have for longer.

I doubt Panarama will touch the human interaction aspect that is at the heart of all the biggest titles now days, a modern day far more accessible version of Dungeons and Dragons on a global scale, that all gaming is. Really not looking forward to this show it is the BBC after all.

You're right an addictive personality is an addictive personality. But don't we try and 'help' with many other addictions - NHS quit smoking schemes, AA, etc.
I don't see that a program maybe raising awareness is a bad thing. And might help some people or family members see how they are being drawn in.

why is having an opinion on something like WoW trolling?

If I need help from the NHS to stop me doing something that I enjoy that may make me feel better as a bit of escapism perhaps because I am depressed or simply because I like a bit of escapism, can I all so get help to stop me watching rubbish soaps full of depressed boring people (Eastenders etc all), NHS help to stop me reading Heat magazine (god knows I would need NHS help if I did read that rag), and NHS help to stop my life from being so boring I want to escape it in the first place, about ten million in cash should do it.

Where does it end?.

We really need to get Daily Fail readers some NHS help, I mean that is obvious and needs doing now.

I've yet to meet anyone who's staying up too late to wake up for work in the morning because they've been reading OK all night or watching soaps. But maybe they are out there.
Like I said earlier, it's about whether it becomes detrimental to life.

It would be a good thing Paisley, but Panorama won't put it across as, "these people need help with their addictions, what are we doing as a society to change these peoples' lives, so they don't feel the need to play games too much."
It will be "OMG games are evil and people who make games are sick and possibly also peeedos, and we should ban anything even mildly entertaining for computers, so all we are left with is Excel"

Or something along those lines anyway
As Ryoko said, sensationalist crap.

No they stay up all night watching films or using the internet.

Point is it's an escape, tackle the cause, if someone is depressed and playing WOW as an escape from daily life all night, because life is shit, getting the NHS to stop em playing WOW isn't going to help is it?.

It's like banning axe murderers from owning axes and then declaring them all cured because they no longer have access to axes.

If you have nothing else to do theres nothing wrong with playing games all night anyway, more productive then watching TV all night and less depressing since Jeremy Kyle hasn't featured in a game yet.

Actually I do agree that online games in particular can be addictive (having played one myself for four years, at some points far too intensively) but I worry, as others have said, that the programme will just over-dramatise the whole thing and act as if anyone who plays games is going to get their lives ruined.

Paisley - I quite frequently stay up late to get to the end of a book and have then been really tired at work the next day. I know plenty of people in fandoms (ie the extreme ends of tv viewers/fans) who will stay up all night talking to each other and reading or writing fanfic. Believe me, I used to belong to a Hollyoaks forum on such a subject... (don't ask!)

MrsChemist makes excellent points about the nature of online gaming addiction. For people who want an escape or find it easier to socialise with strangers that aren't face-to-face, an online gaming world can be a welcome respite from real life. You can make genuine friends online (whether in a game, on mumsnet, in a chatroom, whatever) and because the game never ends and keeps going when you aren't online (and you might be friends with different timezones), there's a lot of pressure to log on just to see people, never mind from specific gameplay aspects that might kick in (like long dungeons etc). But I feel that most people who take it too far would've just filled the space with something else. And for some, online games are actually a real lifeline and a way to reach out and 'talk' to people.

Anyway I was going to make much better points, HONEST ;), but little one needs feeding so much dash!

Yes Chickens, we will have to hope our DH's don't get it in the neck too much!

oops DHs, naughty apostrophe sneaking in

A friend of mine actually met and married a man from Sweden playing WoW. The marriage didn't last long though.

i played a lot of 'way of exploding fist' in my yoof, and am yet to punch someone..

and i reckon there's sothing awry in your thinking - you spend hours on MN - and object to a different form of online community?

I was more of an IK+ girl myself and I have punched someone in the face, his trousers where not down at the time tho.

"Press T for trousers!"

I bet you all five pounds they don't feature anyone over the age of 18 and it starts off with the words "do you know how long your son plays video games for?" I'm expecting it to as sexist as it will be patronising.

Oooo, can we have a silly phrase sweepstakes?

If so can I bet on someone being asked why they allow their child to play 18 rates games and the response being "I didn't know it wasn't suitable for children". I want bonus points if there's a shot of a box with a nice clear bright red 18 logo visible on it.

I was always more a PC gamer, beginning with the C64 and going on to the Amiga 500 before actually getting a proper PC. Vaguely recall playing IK+. Moonstone was the first 'violent' game I can remember playing, you could turn the blood on or off. Otherwise I was mostly playing strategy/god games anyway.

Which reminds me, I'm sure squillions of people have been addicted to the Sims (I've put in a lot of hours myself over the years!) but no one ever complains about that.

I bet at least one concerned parent tells the tale of how little Jonny plays online for up to 16 hours a day and is anti-social, aggressive and tired all the time. Not concerned enough to turn off the console or put any restrictions in place whatsoever, though. It will be the advertisers/games designers fault. Guaranteed.

Don't be silly I don't think I've ever seen anything on TV mention age ratings in such a way as to blame the parents, nor do they ever show the boxes.

It will be, my 10 year old spends all day playing COD and the shops shouldn't sell those things, perhaps followed by some rubbish about per pressure with images of release day midnight openings with the few idiots standing outside waiting to get the game to illustrate how addictive games are (look addicts!) and the promo posters (that don't have the age on em).

I used to play the Sims. It appealed to my control freak tendencies. My Sims were always on time for work/school, clean, fed and busy. I stopped playing when I realised that I was essentially just managing another household and worrying about my lady Sim's lack of outside interests

BadgersPaws, I wish there were more Loose Women/Daily Mail readers out there like you

I've lost my Sims 2 and 3 discs but I loved it for the soap opera type drama I could create.

Five English Pounds on them mentioning a killer (probably serial or school shooter) and how they played GTA all day every day.

That's a given, MrsChemist. They may also blame games for the divorce rate.

I rather think MrsHamdon is having a bit of fun. Her first post made me

WoW to blame for the divorce rate?

Couldn't resist, sorry!

Description from the BBC website

"As pester power kicks in and the computer games' industry launches its latest products on to the Christmas market, Panorama hears from youngsters who've dropped out of school and university to play games for anything up to 21 hours a day. They describe their obsessive gaming as an addiction. Reporter Raphael Rowe, meets leading experts calling for more independent research into this controversial subject, and reveals the hidden psychological devices in games that are designed to keep us coming back for more."

Hidden psychological devices?? Oh Em Gee they are brainwashing us.

Does anyone reckon they'll mention things like these kids potentially struggling with depression, or outside circumstances that they need a break from, or will it be all the fault of these evil games manufacturers?

I wonder...

I've been playing WoW for 3 years or so, I started playing when I was working as a police officer, when you're working late or night shifts there's very little else to do at 3 or 4am!!!

My sister also plays, we're in the same guild. She met her husband on WoW about 4 years ago now and they have a 2 year old son, and has just announced she's pregnant with her 2nd!! They're all very happy. My sister introduced me to the game and to the guild we're in. I now have a better relationship and more contact with her than I've ever had.

After playing for 6 months I met my husband in game, we met in real life shortly after and we have been together since then and now have a 5 month old baby together. I, like many Wow players mentioned earlier, suffered from depression, mostly because of a very bad previous relationship from many years ago. This was before I started playing the game and I did not go out much so Wow helped me resocialise myself. I am happy to say that since I have been with my husband this has no longer been an issue!

We dont play so much any more, about 3 evenings a week, no more than many people would go out to the pub or sit and watch mindless TV!! Compared to co-ordinating 25 people playing a game all together to reach a common goal (namely killing dragons or wot not) whilst chatting and joking on skype or teamspeak, watching TV bored the crap out of me!

I also make a point of only playing when the baby is asleep as I have seen other people neglect their kids in order to play.

Wow has taken me to many places across Europe to meet other players and I have a very active social life locally with other players (not just in the game). We also hold annual parties for our guild members to meet up in real life, our next one is in January and so far we have 20 people planning on invading our home!!!

Taken in moderation I believe it's no different to any other hobby bringing like minded people together. However, as with many things, too much of a good thing can turn it sour and I have known many younger kids (16 to 18) who have screwed up school and do nothing but play the game.

Not all Wow players are fat, balding old men sitting on their sofa's belching and farting..... :D

The thing that makes me mad is the parents who have no clue that letting their children do anything for that length of time is damaging to their development. It could be TV, it could be food, it could be exercise.
Any activity that becomes an addiction is dangerous.
We all use computers all the time now. It is a matter of parents exercising parental control over the time spent on those computers. Regardless of whether it is Club Penguin or WOW!

Exactly ronshar

I hate the scapegoating that goes on with these things, whether it's games/TV/music/film, people need to stop blaming different mediums when they should be taking responsibility themselves. Either for them or their children.