£100000 a year but too poor to be able to afford a third child

[emkana]

I might be mad to get into this again, after that money thread I started the other week, but I just feel like I'm on a completely different planet again, after reading this article. It raises some good points comparing Britain and France, but the first example used is just ludicrous IMO.

article here

Ah!
Crikey you were brave moving to another country alone with a gaggle of kids!

Glad it has all turned out well.
You sound like you have a lovely life now.

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expat - I do agree. It is nice to have a holiday occasionally though.

I wouldn't mind moving to France, though, nor would DH.

Don't care about having a house w/a garden, though.

We rent a two-bed, 2nd floor flat here now, no garden.

It never killed anyone to grow up sharing a room in a flat w/no garden. Hell, that's how a lot of the world lives.

I'm a massive elephant now, ggg. And made the mistake of going to H&M - obsensibly to pick up a present - and drooling over the size 10 clothes I used to be able to wear.

Soon, tho! Soon! 28 weeks and counting then that's me done for good.

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Well said Expat - some people think the world owes them a living. Noone said life was easy!! The pair in the article sound like a couple of spoilt brats to me.

I want a ballet top, GGG! They'll probably out of style by the time this one comes along. Ach, well, there'll be another trend I'm sure.

Too right, GDG. Sure we all want the best for our kids, but you do the best you can and if your kids aren't grateful, well, that's really too bad.

Dunno. My dad grew up really poor and we spent a lot of time in S. America where people - shocker! - grow up in high rise flats and don't have everything handed to them and they seem to get on just fine. In fact, the teens there seemed a lot more mature than American and British ones.

It's not the end of the world to not have holidays abroad, a house, etc.

£80k

I could still live in Solihull and buy this house which although is nowhere near me is still classed as Solihull for 80k. I would have no mortgage and an extra 80k in the bank. Our outgoings would be less and we would be earning money from our investment but there's no way I would do it.

Kaz, I take your point that it isn't how much money you earn, it's how well off you feel. But I still think this couple have a cheek moaning when they earn, between them, four times the average wage.

Tbh £100k based on two incomes isn't THAT much to write home about in London - two middle managers would earn that much (must sound ridiculous to anyone outside the South East but it's true). Sounds like they are expecting senior executive lifestyles on middle manager money. If dh could pull his finger out, we'd have been earning that much a couple of years ago. And I didn't moan about being skint! But we were living in an ex-council house in desirable but rough inner-city area - because I'm too scared to take on a big mortgage (went through repossession as a teenager).

But it's not about "Can't afford to...", it's about "Don't want to...!"

They have no right to call it a depressing situation, when so many people would think they had died and gone to heaven

I think the whole point is though, that yes it's about choices, but not at individual level - but the level of the country as a whole. France has realised that they're going to have severe problems with paying for pensions with population decline so are taking measures to encourage a good strong tax base in the future. A measure which will hopefully increase the birth rate.

Question is, what sort of facilities do we want in the UK in future? Do we want a decent state pension? Do we want a good strong NHS for an increasingly elderly population? Sure, people could have more children and decrease their lifestyle expectations but mostly they don't. They stick at 1 or 2 children. Bottom line is, we need more taxpayers from somewhere...

For us, we'll stick at 2 children regardless (I had too horrible a pregnancy last time round to repeat it). However, another huge barrier would be the costs involved if we had a 3rd. I would want us to be in a bigger house (not essential, but that is something I would want with another child), we'd definitely need a bigger car, there'd be an extra mouth to feed when all the cheaper pre-packed food in supermarkets is geared to 2 or 4 portion sizes, another uniform/clothes to buy for, etc, etc. Of course, we'd manage if I got pregnant by accident, but we're not going down that route by choice. I doubt we're the only ones in that position.

What I'm saying in a round about way is that I don't think it's my "right" for the state to fund me to have an extra child. However, if the state is wanting a population increase and a larger number of tax payers, then larger child benefit/better tax breaks or whatever would be what would encourage that population increase.

i don' quite see what is with all the outrage at this said couple in the article.
i agree is not at all representative of the entire parents population of UK
But i think they are looking more at wanting to give their kids the best they can and their definition of best does not equal everybody else's ideal. that's all there is. a different system of values.
i didn't think teh woman was moaning as such tbh.
all it was said: it would be nice to have a third kid. howvere, based on what they earn (and presumably they want to keep having at least teh same income for teh future) they cannot afford a third child to be raised the way they want to. that's all.
other people, as illustarted in this thread, ahve otehr wishes for their children's future and upbringing.
i have a different view of what i want my child to benefit from and experience as she grows up. and so on.
i don't see any problem with someone having a £100K income and not affording something or another. what do i care?? they earn their money, they do whatever they want with them. and the amount of tax you pay on such an income is a joke so they are not exactly living in the lap of luxury what with residing in london and looking after 2 children.

I think the outrage is directed at the cheek of people who moan 'poor little me' and expect sympathy for their struggle having to live on £100k. Lots of people manage to have three kids on far less money than that.

Disagree with your tax argument too - I used to be a relatively high earner (middle-management type salary in London) and was always astonished that I wasn't paying MORE tax.

lots of people manage on a much lower income and with more children but it depends on where you live and what you want/think is good to give your children. everybody ahs different standards and desires.
don't know what to say about the tax but we sometimes get annoyed at how much we pay for it. all for a good cause and all that but it would be nice to keep more of what we earn.

They're probably not claiming "poor little me", though. They're probably friends of the journos, who as part of a longer interview have said something along the lines of "no we'll probably stick at three" and given their reasons why, i.e. not wanting to reduce their lifestyle for their kids sake as well as their own. The journo has taken 2 or 3 soundbite sentences from that interview and used it to prove her point for her article. Chances are, they're feeling mortified by how they've been portrayed.

But if the journalist hadn't done that, what we all have to argue about, georgina?

actually people whinging about how they can't afford this that and the other gets right on my nerves no mtter how much the people are earning. not sure why.

That's a good point, Georgina. I hope they will be writing an outraged letter of complaint if that is the case! I think you're right seneora- there is something profoundly irritating about people confusing need with desire and not recognising that they have many choices where many people have none.

SP, I'm sure we'd find something to argue about without her expert help

Kind of with you there, but depends on context. I mean, if someone asks you where you're going on holiday one year and you shrug and say nowhere because you can't afford it - does that class as whinging?

Then again my mother complaining how she can't afford things on her income, then going out to Country Casuals to buy the new season's clothes and popping off on her next holiday abroad annoys me intensely But each to their own...

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no, that's not whinging.

Bringing it up yourself and saying " we can't even afford a holiday this year" does though.

(and actually, my mother is a good example of how you can't always use income to compare how well off you are or not - she has low income, but fails to see that the fact she has no mortgage now on a fairly large house and no dependants puts her in a "fairly comfortable" bracket and can't understand that someone with a larger income but young kids and a large mortage can't "make do" as well as she does . It's all perspective really, isn't it?)

But, unless circumstances are unusual, in the first instance you are an extravagant spendthrift (a state to which I aspire and sometimes achieve) and in the second you possibly may not have enough money coming in, imo, ggg.

Ahhh, so that's it - those on lower incomes just have lower standards!!

Poor David and Claire with their high standards - my poor heart bleeds for them.