£100000 a year but too poor to be able to afford a third child

[emkana]

I might be mad to get into this again, after that money thread I started the other week, but I just feel like I'm on a completely different planet again, after reading this article. It raises some good points comparing Britain and France, but the first example used is just ludicrous IMO.

article here

no its not a fair point! children's routine at that price being more important than spending the precious mat leave together?
not in our family!

Well said GDG

Ah - indeed that was a while ago Katym - 1 bed flats go for more than double that in most areas now.

To buy in London you need to save a huge deposit and are still looking at mortgages of 120k upwards. That certainly doesnt buy you accommodation with suitable amount of bedrooms that families require (at least 2).

Our 2 bed house has jumped up in value now by 80k since we bought 4 years ago so we bought just in time. We could never afford to buy anything big enough for our family of four now on our joint income of around 35k. We are indeed looking to move out of London.

Nursery fees would cost pretty much the same amount for my two as i was earning so it does seem pointless in returning to work. This drops our income to just over 25k.

me and dp live on a good bit less that 20k a year. we have 1 dd. we can afford a car house we manage to pay our bills we still have little luxurays like his football. how can some1 on 100k a year be struggling. no sympathy from me

Choices are there to be made (for people like this anyway) - for the most part, people just don't want to take them (moving house, giving up work, holidays, cars, spending...). Fine, but don't whine about how hard your life is.

nightynight - then what would happene when you return to work and have to find new childcare provision for 3 children? provision that you are happy with and with no teething troubles?

My dd had a few days off with us and then continued with her nursery (albeit only afternoons) which she thoroughly enjoyed and in fact needed.

i used to work for the owners of the arcadia group (they own top shop dorothy perkins etc) they had a house that was over £1mill and spent 4 doing it up there kids go to private school and the little 1 nursery. they still hired a nanny (me) even though she wasnt working and she always used to moan about having no money while sitting with 4 cars outside. it really bugged me so i left. how can she say she has no money

Absolutely GDG afraid to say that everyone has to compromise or even make some sacrifices in order to do the things they really want [in this case have a third child] It is about proritising I guess.

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what an awful couple. I hope the journalist has exaggerated, or if not I hope she slapped them.

Still, it's probably a good thing for society that such snobby bastards "can't afford" to have too many children.

wow - I think im planning on moving to france. What will I get for 2 kids 12 and 9 ?

ggg and teeavee...my sister (4 kids) and her dh enjoy a lifestyle in France that I reckon would need twice the income they have in the UK.
I remind her of this when she pines for home.
No more good wine every night,school skiing trips that cost next to nothing,three to four holidays a year,excellent state schools and so on..

(Ggg,thought you moved to France to be with your dh.Didn't realise you were a single mother in France.)

What about mums who are at home already? they will get nothing extra from the french scheme. I'm a sahm mum & about to have 4th child - my dh & I decided that it was better for our kids that I was there to actually look after them. Respect that others make different choices here. We took financial cuts but wouldn't benefit if we lived in france as I don't go out to work - but work at home. The hardest job I've ever had.

Find the example family living in London a load of rubbish - can't manage on 100k???? What about others living in london on much less??? how do they cope???

Find the comment about the schools not having kids that speak english offensive. What's so wrong with cultural diversity. In a few months those kids would be speaking english whilst those parents who complain about lack of english speaking wouldn't have bothered to learn a word of any other language.

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I am beginning to think the same thing, gggg - the lower income was definitely a shock when I 1st moved here, but we have an excellent appartment by the sea for a v reasobnable rent, excellent food, etc etc - so far from the family though ...it's a toughie, you can't have everything anywhere can you?

Not read the article or other posts yet, but I can identify a little with the title sentiment. And we only have one child at present, and I am starting to think (after a year or so of planning towards a second child) that we will just have one afterall.

The things we currently do/have and the lifestyle we have, and our current plans for future would have to change if we had two children, let alone a third.

So, whilst No - I am not too poor to have more children, but I'd have to make changes to wmy current lifestyle. And I am not sure I want to do that.

It's all about life choices and priorities. Everyone's are different.

There is no perfect number of children to have, etc. No one way of living is right for everyone.

Well we could have been them, lived in London with a joint income of over £100K - lovely part of west london. Though I hasten to add the joint income of £100K only happended for two years at the most.

Childcare - nanny £1650 plus tax and national insurance = nearly £2500 per month. Why didn't we put DS1 in nursery, the only half decent ones were nowhere near us and with London traffic and commuters a total nightmare.

State schools, good until age 12, no idea about comp. We applied for the local decent nursery but didn't get in even though we lived five minutes away. So didn't send DS1 to nursery as already paying for nanny for DS1 and DS2.

Were we broke yes, - No, did we have lots of spare cash - No.

Could we have moved into smaller house in the area, well as we had two kids, two bedroomed flat and no garden - NO.

Did we have a huge mortgage - YES, £1500 a monthish

Could we have moved out of the area and got more, YES. Would that have increased my commuting distance and therefore reduced the time that I got to see the children - YES, YES, YES.

Did we live beyond our means - YES, YES, YES - because we thought that we should have more money because we earnt so much.

Would I expect you to feel sorry for me? NO
Were we poor? NO

Did we change things? Yes, we made our choice, I left my job ( I earnt the most money )left London, moved to surrey and bought a three bed house with lovely garden.

A lot of people have missed the point it doesn't matter how much you earn - its what the money buys you that matters. These people are high earners, high tax payers and want a lifestyle which reflects those facts. They want to see their kids when they come home from their long hours, they want to be able to enjoy the things that London has to offer.

If its tough for them to procreate then we really are getting something wrong.

The system that we have it anti women - it doesn't support women in there decision to stay at work. Childcare is so expensive at what ever level of the spectrum you are at - whether it is central london or the outer hebrides it prices women out of the market. The govt is tinkering at the edges with taxcredits so that people can have conversations about whether it is worth it for them to work.. But what is really needed is affordable childcare which will give the woman to choose to work whether it is £100K or £10K per annum.

Don't beat them up because they are "rich" within the world they live in they ain't and how many of us have the strength to see out of their own little pocket.

Ooops bit of rant.

very good post, kaz. the system IS making things difficult for women

yes good post kaz

Sorry ggg,being incredibly nosy now,but you moved to France with ex dh even though you were divorcing him???
Quoi?

Take home pay of £1000 a month and crappy tax credits and child benefit .... £100K..... YES PLEASE!

I have Jessica and the bump and will have a 3rd (and 4th if i can talk DH into it) and i dont care!

As long as we are all clothed, fed and the bills are paid, what else matters?!

Went out to take my girls for a walk.

Why did I know that there would be 50+ messages upon my return?

Colditz, me thinks you got me sussed!

Actually, Kaz there is affordable childcare in the UK - childminders.

Nurseries are overpriced, but that's because the staff ratio is so good. in Spain, nurseries are cheap but they have around 1 adult to 7 under twos (for ds) and dd's class (the 2 year olds) is one adult to 20 (admitedly with an occasional extra helper). Staff ratios are lower than average there.

In an ideal world I'd send them both to a childminder instead, where there would be fewer children. but they don't have those here.

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LOL!

Holidays? What are those? Why do people here consider those an essential part of life? I've never understood that.

I'm under no delusions about putting my kids through uni. They want to go to Uni, they'd better get a job.

Anyone who says £100,000 isn't enough outta spend a while with w/people like us.

What a joke!