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Stress and nurseries

62 replies

OldieMum · 19/09/2005 10:43

Article in today's Guardian here

I read this piece just after a conversation with DH when I pointed out how difficult I find it to deal with him when he brings DD home from the nursery and wants to read the paper and/or chat in the way we did before she was born, and I'm left trying to give her my attention and cook at the same time.

OP posts:
frannyf · 19/09/2005 20:01

Would it be stupid to suggest that the best age for children to be separated from their mothers is the age at which they no longer feel stressed by the separation? This would obviously be different for each child. I am not trying to add to anybody's worries about childcare, but I can't agree that being away from your parents before you are entirely ready for it is a necessary part of childhood per se. I do understand that some people's family situations make it necessary, but don't feel it is a desirable 'rite of passage' on the path to independence as stated earlier.

HappyMumof2 · 19/09/2005 20:06

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HappyMumof2 · 19/09/2005 20:07

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frannyf · 19/09/2005 20:10

Actually HappyMum, lots of people do believe it is beneficial - that it will foster independence. Seems back to front to me but I have heard it many times.

Donbean · 19/09/2005 20:11

I agree that it isnt a desirable rite of passage, who wants to purposfully inflict distress on thier child then dress it up as "a normal part of growing up"?
I believe tho, that it has to come at some point,and that point will always be difficult for both child and mother.
If i thought for one moment that my child was disturbed or too upset, then no question, he would come home with me and we would try at a later date.
The whole thing has been a very stressful event for me and i personally feel after reading such an article "whats the point" if the experts are telling me its bad for him, surely im a terrible mother and my instinct to keep him with me for another year must be correct.
However on the other hand, i am met with a shocked atitude when i say that he has never been any where without me..i feel i cant win.
Luckily this doesnt bother me one little bit.
I will not be swayed in my gut feeling on what is right for my child, shocked attitudes or experts opinions, if its not right to me then forget it.

HappyMumof2 · 19/09/2005 20:11

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Donbean · 19/09/2005 20:14

Agree HMO2.
I am rather bolshy tonight, not like me at all.
I feel very strongly about this subject though and have wrestled with my self over this for ages.
Its so hard isnt it.

HappyMumof2 · 19/09/2005 20:16

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Donbean · 19/09/2005 20:18

Me too!
It just felt right for him and for me. He has hit the terrible twos big time and im struggling so i felt that it would do us both good to be apart for a short time.
I have never left him any where before.

monkeytrousers · 19/09/2005 22:18

It's very dependent on the quality of care in nurseries too. If a carer is available to a chld in the moment they need them to be then fine, but institutions have a lesser record of being able to provde this 1-2-1 care when needed. The statistics need to be interpreted properly though. The media rarely bother to do that.

handlemecarefully · 20/09/2005 08:46

"Why does the author of "raising boys" believe that they shouldnt attend day care before the age of 3 HMO2?"

Donbean, he has absolutely no evidence to support this, it's just personal opinion masquerading as fact.

As it happens, it's my dd who I worry about in her part time day nursery place. Ds is completely unphased by it.

frannyf · 20/09/2005 09:00

I think he claims boys are more sensitive to separation from their mothers. From purely personal and anecdotal evidence, I would agree with him.

Psychobabble · 20/09/2005 09:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

beansprout · 20/09/2005 09:08

Ds starts nursery next week as I have to go back to work (part-time) the week after. I couldn't find a decent childminder and now I just feel crap.

harpsichordcarrier · 20/09/2005 09:12

to be fair, Steve Biddulph is very candid about saying his views in his books are his personal views only, based on his "inner convictions". (I have his book The Complete Secrets of Happy Children.) I found it quite refreshing to read, compared to all those books which sit on the fence - on the one hand this, on the other hand that.

handlemecarefully · 20/09/2005 09:16

frannyf - and from a purely personal basis (one dd and one ds) I would disagree with him. It's my dd who doesn't cope well with maternal separation.

... it's obviously child dependent, not gender dependent

handlemecarefully · 20/09/2005 09:16

and pyschobabble - totally agree.

harpsichordcarrier · 20/09/2005 09:28

I agree with you frannyf btw, I do think there is too much emphasis on children (even really young children) needing to be independent and "toughened up" at an age when, IMextremelyHO, comfort and security are the most important things. (I must admit that my heart sinks to hear people say - oh she's only crying to make you feel guilty! OR perhaps because she's upset????)
yes, it is down to the individual child and the parents' judgment of when the benefits of separation are not outweighed by the stresses and downsides.
I find the research interesting though, especially for judging the reactions of children too young to communicate effectively.

saadia · 20/09/2005 10:18

I was thinking about this thread today. Ds1 started going to playgroup aged 3 and settled in pretty easily. He is such a chatterbox, non-stop morning till night and I have always talked to him a lot and encouraged him to express himself. I just don't believe that would be possible in a nursery environment where no child gets one-to-one. They do learn other things - sharing, co-operating, being independent etc, but my gut feeling is that ideally very young children need quite close attention and encouragement.

I have to agree that the children I know who attended nursery at two or earlier are very independent and outgoing - more so than ds1 but I believe that he will pick up those skills eventually.

morningpaper · 20/09/2005 10:26

Nightynight: "This study would be interesting if it made some estimate of what age is best for first separation, in terms of least amount of stress."

I totally agree, I think that's the important question. Maybe it's BETTER for children in the long-run to experience that separation-related-stress aged 11 months - or maybe it's better at 5 years. Without knowing, we can't make an informed choice.

frannyf · 20/09/2005 11:51

HMC - of course, we can only generalise, all children are different.

There is a lot on cortisol and stress in children in an excellent book "Why Love Matters" I read recently. Sorry can't remember the author. A fascinating description of how their upbringing and experiences affects children's brains.

dinosaur · 20/09/2005 12:04

I've read that too and I know Oldiemum has.

Psychobabble · 20/09/2005 12:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Donbean · 20/09/2005 12:51

For me though, it was important to wait until my ds was able to communicate.
As a baby/ small tot IMO he couldnt let me know other than extreme distress if he was happy there or not. Now he talks he can pretty much tell me when carefully questioned.
My discomfort at leaving him any where without my self or DH was so extreme that i have waited until now.
At 2y 2m he cries when i first drop him off but i have been a complete pain in the arse to the people running the play school and as a result i feel totally comfortable and confident in thier skills and most importantly that they actually care about thier children.

mommie · 20/09/2005 12:52

i would have thought that heightened 'stress' was an entirely normal emotion for a child away from its mother. and the child of a SAH neglectful, stressed, or post natally depressed mother probably suffers it too.
many mothers want to work as well as need to work, and a happy mother makes for a happy child IMO. Stress is an emotive word. We all suffer stress, but some of it is productive. A baby suffers stress if it is late being fed.