Voluntary work or lose benefits

[Marjoriew]

Government intend to cut benefits of claimants on JSA who refuse to do voluntary work of 30 hours a week over a 4-week period.
Benefits could be stopped for up to 3 months if claimants refuse to comply.

People who pick litter should be paid a bloody sight more than the shit wages they already get ....

cache in,trash out....i do it every weekend anyway!!

i collect litter as part of my hobby,sadly,there is alot out there

It might help to make people on JSA a little less choosy about the sort of jobs they take. Some will take anything going, but some expect to be able to walk into a job with the same level of pay as they had before, doing something that they want to do. Life is just not that kind, and I don't think the taxpayer should be supporting people while they wait for their ideal job to come up. Which at the moment, in some cases, it does.

They don't curlymama, you can specify for 3 months the type of work you prefer, after that you've got to be open to all work for which you are deemed suitable.

Mamatomany, the stats disagree with you too.

Here are the statistics again, from the October 2010 report:

No of people on JSA: 1 470 000
No of unemployed people: 2 450 000
Economically inactive people: 9 280 000
No of vacancies: 459 000

If people picked up litter in their communities then they might take more pride in where they live and that may 'inspire' them to better themselves.
Nothing wrong with litter picking and cleaning.
Good honest day's work for benefits...what is wrong with that?

Nothing is handed to you on a plate.
Labour could have sorted all of this out, but they chose NOT to as it would not be 'popular'.
Well the coalition are not out to be popular, they are sorting out the MESS!

Sorry, only got to page 5 but I have some anecdotal experience I read on another forum....

There is a young man who has been put on a lovely zero hours contract working for his local authority, litterpicking. Up until now he's been working but he's been told that this week they have no hours for him. Surprise surprise this week they also have a volunteer group of litter pickers. He can't do anything about it because he's on zero hours (quite common these days and all he could get at the time but he'd rather that than benefits) and he can't claim JSA as technically he's still employed.

Who is to say that this scheme will not do this to yet more local authority workers? Parks and gardens crew, refuse collectors.... who is next? This is taking money out of a worker's pocket and not helping same worker out. How is that right in any way, shape or form?

Glitterknickaz ..I agree, a lot of council workers are on zero hours contracts ,so only work when required ,along comes the work farers.....still its what Davey boy thinks we all want ....

Please explain zero hours contract..what is that?

zero hours contracts mean you only work when required ..casual workers

Common in retail and local authorities nowadays. Probably won't affect the retail bods but those doing manual work for local authorities genuinely would face hardship under this, as it's likely as further costcutting that the Workfarers would take their work!

So you don't get paid but have to be available for work?
Presumably this means you can't take on another job?.
Can people on these'contracts' sign on?

No, MoralDefective, they can't sign on - so no income from work if not given hours, and no JSA either. You'd be surprised at how many low-paid workers end up on zero-hours contracts. Retail's just as bad for it.

Haven't read all of this (you lot are v prolific)

So apologies if this repeats other comments but someone mentioned this as being like apprenticeships.

I am convinced that apprenticeships are not going to be of any help here. I used to work for a company that gives apprenticeships, let me explain how they work:

• if someone who is unemployed and between 16 and 18 takes an apprenticeship course, the course provider gets £16k per learner. Where I worked for that they got 20 weeks training. Yes they get exams but frankly some of the subjects studied are already completely overstaffed and don't need yet another gormless teenage geek.

• 19-24 year olds get less (think it's £8k) for the same training.

• There is no funding for the over 25s (it's a bit like x factor no? )

Volunteer work doesn't really work either. We do need to address long term vocational unemployment (ie those who just don't want to work) which for the avoidance of doubt is a tiny subset of those claiming benefits.

I think actually we'd do better to reintroduce excepted professions. It used to be the case that there was a legal requirement for some job roles to be set aside for people who are disabled - car park attendants. Hence in Coventry, for a very long time, there were a hell of a lot of one armed car park attendants. Well why can't we do that for non-disabled but hard to employ people.

For example, school dinner ladies/lunch attendants (whatever the hell they are called these days). If this was made an excepted role for 'parents with childcare responsibilities who are in receipt of benefits' then mothers who wanted to work part time could do so - I'm not saying this helps the benefits bill - and I am not making any value judgement on the role whatsoever (other than it's definitely part time during school hours), and it would give them an opportunity to have the dignity of work, while also keeping their benefits so they could afford to live on a part time wage.

And in terms of 'where are all these jobs going to come from' - how is that any different from the nanny state - why is it everyone else's responsibility?

My experience is that the difference between those who find work when unemployed and those that don't is the former group works bloody hard to change their circumstances. If you are desperate to work, and willing to consider anything, there are jobs out there. I can't go back to my old job now so I'm in the same situation and you have to change your perspective. You probably won't do the same thing for the whole of your life and your income will also fluctuate. We've had this idea that you leave school and earn very little and then go upwards from there for many years but I think things will move both ways throughout life for most of us in the future.

To add to the unemployment statistics:

The government cuts are forecast to make 500,000 people unemployed in the public sector, plus 750,000 will lose their jobs in the private sector. In total 1 250 000 extra JSA claimants.

There are many companies which rely on public sector work to survive (eg contractors, construction) and many companies which rely on spending from public sector salaries.

The VAT rise will further reduce demand and weaken the economy, adding to these numbers.

Sorry to sound so thick but how do people live like that?
DS1 is currently doing an apprenticeship with Sunseekers (marine electrician)through an agency,he has to go to college for the first six months and doesn't get paid anything.
Subsequently he has to do bar work in the evenings and the occasional night portering.
Then go to college the following/same day.

When I was on benefits I volunteered at a couple of places. I know plenty of people who have no intention of working, because I actively sought and got a job I was a "mug".

Worse is, they end up teaching their kids to have no ambition or wish to do better.

Great idea

Having moved to the staes i now realise how ridiculously overly generous our welfare system is in the UK- the point is people have been taking advantage of it for a long time. I know some people don't but the UK is known world wide as a soft touch country where you can get a house and a hand out and the point is that the poor blighters working are paying for this- it is not fair.

I never thought i would say this- but good on the tories for trying to stamp out the mick takers.
Here in the US- you get a set amount of unemployment for 12 months, if you have paid in and you pay your rent or mortgage out of that. I tell you what you see people much more motivted to find a job, whatever that may be.

Sometimes you need to do any work to make a living rather than have others support you whilst you find the 'right job'. Our entitlementcentric culture has got the UK into the mess it is now in.

I have never voted tory but frankly, someone had to step in and take the credit cards off the teenagers.

cherrysodalover theres an awful lot of poverty and homelessness in America...

Compared to many other forms of benefit the UK seems to want to hand out, JSA seems one of the least generous. Cutting items like housing benefit is a much higher priority in my view.

Also I worry the only jobs it will create will be for more bureaucrats to adminster it.

It also doesn't address the basic issue of what the UK will do as unemployment rates inexorably rise over the next decade or two due to competition from cheaper/educated emerging economies. We may be able to pay JSA with 7% or 8% of the labout force unemployed but when that number is 20% (like Spain is already) its going to become totally unaffordable.

Hence Cameron is in China and hence hopefully we will do a lot of things which encourage businesse here like much lower tax rates and a favourable stable unchanging regime for businesses.

So, there's Fred and Harry who want to work, who are applying for everything going, and who still can't get a job because of the 20:1 (or whatever the ratio is, and I suspect it's actually a lot higher) applicants to jobs.

Then there's John and Jacob who don't apply for anything because they think they're worth more than that, or can't be bothered... we send them to a volunteer placement and suddenly their attitude changes (I'm not sure why, if it was that bad before) and they want to go and apply for jobs.

Doesn't that just raise the ratio to 22:1?