Voluntary work or lose benefits

[Marjoriew]

Government intend to cut benefits of claimants on JSA who refuse to do voluntary work of 30 hours a week over a 4-week period.
Benefits could be stopped for up to 3 months if claimants refuse to comply.

but you cant stop any form ...don't you get that?...people have sex they create children..unless you are going to advocate forced abortion for the poor it just wont happen..

SumfingNew Mon 08-Nov-10 00:48:12
"cory - you think it's right/fair/sensible that the only stratum of society that thinks twice about whether it is the right time to bring a child into the world is the "middle class"?"

Well, it took rather less restraint for us to wait for a few years until our earning power had increased than it would do for someone without our expectations to give up hope of ever having children- so hardly a very fair comparison, is it? Deferred gratification works better when there is some hope of final gratification.

Kaloki/Cory - fair enough, you're right...let's give in.

"We are watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre."

Yeah because the poor having children means the death of a nation

ignore him, he makes his living by kicking people onto the dole... ignore ignore.

A few posters have mentioned that Australia has a similar scheme, however there are a few, quite pertinent, differences.

For a start Australia has lower unemployment than the UK and rising job vacancies. Secondly, for the past few years the government has consistently moved large numbers away from the scheme and into training programmes as the latter have proved far more successful at getting people back to work. Thirdly, those who do take part in 'Work for the Dole' receive an extra payment on top of their normal benefits.

It was similar in intent, as it was brought in by a right wing government intent on showing that they were tough on 'scroungers', but is on its way out, largely because it doesn't work as a mechanism to funnel people back into work, only as a way of proving how tough you are as a government.

The compulsory work schemes for long-term unemployed idea will be very popular with the electorate even if the left-wing press and Archbishops play the scheme as 'draconian'. Even a Labour MP being interviewed last night on the Radio 4 'Westminster Hour' was largely in favour of the proposal, together with other schemes to improve self-confidence and help people get back into the work habit. The shameful statistic up to now has been that if someone is unemployed for more than 18 months they are more likely to die or retire than get another job. Can't continue

These threads always bring out the trolls don't they

There is a practical issue here though.

What if someone is forced to go on the scheme and goes along, refuses to do any work and just sits there? Do they get their benefit cut, who judges that thay have done too little work, what if they steal or are violent, will normal employment law apply for dimissals?

In the end, unless it is piece work, I dont see how someone who does not want to work can be forced to work and it could in fact be very disruptive to a charity to have someone like that around the premises.

Nobody has seen any details at all, maybe people will receive extra payment for taking part in the scheme.
The basic principle is a good one, now the details need ironing out but I cannot think of any reason why people with able bodies should not work, children over 7 are not an excuse.

I think there will be judgements made by supervisors about attendance and performace and benefits withheld or retained on that basis. Presumably the worker will have to sign up to their 4 - 6 weeks' work-scheme as part of the deal and this contract could include things like not stealing or being disruptive.

Listening to a farming programme the other morning, the fruit farm interviewed was explaining that they still have to recruit pickers from eastern Europe via agencies every season because local unemployed people either think picking fruit is 'beneath them' or they are not up to the mark.

But most of them won't be like that. The person I know who employs ex offenders does have trouble from some of them but not most (one just went back inside for something unrelated to work). If it works fro even 60% of people then it's good and it will also be working in the sense that they cannot be working on the side as they wont' have time and they will be out of bed and at the work place which will please those of us who work very hard to keep these people.

The problem with taking temporary work like fruit picking ..is its so difficult to sort out benefits again when the work is over

I love how people think that all the unemployed are dishonest

The real problem with temporary work like fruit picking is that it is hard work and people are not as motivated to do it, if they can get nearly the same momey for doing nothing at all...

well we will agree to differ then chil ...because I actually have experience of why taking temp work is so difficult

Chil - I will agree to disagree with you on that count as DP has done jobs like fruit picking before when there has been no other work available.

Just in response to the OP. I think it could be a good idea, but not sure about the 30 hours a week because of people needing to go for interviews.

Someone said something about it being degrading further up the thread. Since when has voluntary work been degrading?? Terrible thing to say.

Haven't managaed to read the whole thread, but in regards to childcare issues I imagine this scheme will only affect people with school age children where there is only one parent in the home able to look after them. Also people who are unable to work won't be on jsa!
These people are recieving payment from the government, why shouldn't they be expected to give something back? When I was unemployed I undertook voluntary work in a nursery where I was eventually offered paid work. I can't imagine anything more soul destroying than sitting at home on my own all day with nothing to do- that isn't going to give anyone the motivation to find work.

I have a half brother who is perfectly able to work yet he has never worked a day in his life he doesn't pay anything towards his six estranged children,has stolen money from my mum, and just before my grandad died borrowed £100 to go and visit his children, then spent it instead on booze :( . I am in no way comparing my half brother to other benefit claimants, but I would love to see his benefits get taken away! I believe that his lack of contribution to society has led to his behaviour becoming steadily worse over the years .

SOmeone that has epilepsy and has an average of less than 104 seizures a year (anything below that) will be on JSA if they are out of work. It is actually incredibly difficult to get any form of disability benefits, even if you are disabled. If you are part of a couple where one parent is disabled, the other person in the couple often has to claim JSA.

Why can't the government just retrain people on JSA with skills that are needed in their local job market, rather than trying to use them as some form of slave labour. I'm quite sure that would be MUCH more successful at getting JSA claimants into work. And if there was affordable childcare provided locally, many more people would be working. But if there are too few nursery placements and before/after school childcare placements, where are people meant to leave their dc while they go to work? Take a leaf out of Sweden's book and provide enough childcare for every parent that needs it, at an affordable price, voila. Loads more parents in work and off JSA.

Look, it works like this.
Right-wing governments favour men, on the whole. Individualism benefits men because of the way society is structured.

Left-wing governments are kinder to women-as-a-group wrt to the feminization of poverty (the fact that women are poor for being women due to the way society has been structured), their caring responsibilities, the fact it is women who get pregnant and are therefore likely to lose out on promotions and jobs.

Right-wingers have a survival of the fittest mentality which presumes that the natural order is as follow: White males followed by white females/minority males/minority females.
The fact that those in privileged and well-paid positions are there simply because of their privilege (as opposed to their work ethic or innate genius ) is ignored by those in such positions. They then begin to pontificate on how they got where they did through natural merit. They are racist and sexist. And you only have to hear their arguments to realise that many of those with these extreme right-wing opinions are aren't the sharpest tools in the box.

Riven - The primary school that my dc's go to, that I help out at, did fund my CRB. So I would assume it's probable that the Nrsry did fund Yummy's CRB.

(Yes, despite having a registered disabilty I do do some volunteer work while all my dc are at school). I help out on art days, I help run a lunchtime art club at the school, I help out on school trips, help with PTA fundraising and listening to the children read.