Voluntary work or lose benefits

[Marjoriew]

Government intend to cut benefits of claimants on JSA who refuse to do voluntary work of 30 hours a week over a 4-week period.
Benefits could be stopped for up to 3 months if claimants refuse to comply.

I think it's a good thing. We have from time to time interviewed people from the job centre. Bear in mind, that this is for an easy, nice, office based job paying much more than minimum wage and which can be arranged with flexible hours.

The first problem is that most graduates won't accept the job because they imagine that walking into a £25k a year job is normal, even though they can't spell and have never written a professional letter. These placements will encourage grads into whatever job they can get so they gain the experience necessary to get a proper job and stop them from being so picky. There are not the numbers of professional jobs that there once were, yet we are churning out thousands more 3rd rate degrees.

Secondly, the mums don't have childcare and won't find it because "I've never left him with anyone else". Erm, welcome to the world of work. So the placements mean they do have to find suitable childcare and get used to using it. Otherwise they aren't "jobseekers", because they aren't prepared to work should a job become available, so they shouldn't be claiming this benefit.

Thirdly, most of the people we get from the job centre don't show up on time or even bother to show up at all. We're talking about a 1/3 no shows. Which really the job centre should know about, because these people obviously aren't seriously looking for work.

I said it before northerngirl, I'll say it again. As a job seeker, you are allowed to specify which hours you can work. So, you can claim JSA and be looking for part time work, or evening work, or weekend work etc. That is allowed, you are still looking for work.

How the hell do you expect parents to pay for childcare for 120 hours out of JSA?

they wouldnt have to pay for 120 hours, as the children would be at school, those with under 4s would be on income support and so this wouldnt apply- that said I still dont agree with the idea

All very well but how about a few real jobs for people to go to.

From reading all these posts, it's becoming clear that this plan can't work as it has been proposed.

Back to the drawing board, I suppose.

Fair point mattahatta. Although 30 hours over 5 days equates to 6 hours a day, so some childcare would need to be funded to cover travel time, say 2 hours a day per child.

Then there are the costs of travelling to factor in.

How much would that add up to each day?

Will the government cover those costs and will it actually have any impact on helping the long term unemployed back to work? I doubt it.

These politicians are idiots. When/how can we get rid?

We've missed Guy Fawkes night lifeinlimbo

I am old enough to remember the old Manpower Commission Scheme and in many cases it did a lot of good- I know people who are still in work in a profession for which they were retrained by the MSC in the early 80s. However this was a well funded, longterm project, which led to real skills.

A 4 week project would be hell on earth for the employers who had to constantly retrain new workers, would be very expensive to administer and would need extra support with finding childcare due to its short term nature (most childminders or bottom of the marked nurseries would refuse to take a child on such an uncertain basis). And it would be unlikely to provide any skills which would then make you more employable.

(Dh's firm once worked with offenders doing community service. It turned out very expensive, not because they were destructive, but simply because they were so inefficient; it would have been a lot quicker not to have had them there and just let the person needed to supervise them do the work instead. Which is a consideration in these days, when firms have to be competitive. Most firms are willing to put up with training new staff because they hope to get something back from them at a later stage- but to have to start all over again every 4 weeks?)

So if you expected it to achieve something you would need to throw money at it. Actually, even if it was intended as a merely punitive measure, you would still need to throw money at it.

I think I said earlier -it works out at 6 hours a day. That could be 9:30 - 2:30 (or 10am - 3pm)- and as you don't have to look for work until your youngest DC is at school, that would fit in with school times.

Unless they ordered mums to do this during school holidays, or in a different town, how is childcare even an issue? At worst, you're going to be looking at either a before or an afterschool club for 1/2 hour or so.

Should add that I do not see anything demeaning in stuffing envelopes: I have done far worse in the course of my career.

wubblybubbly, I doubt there will be 2 hours of travelling per day involved, so children may need to go to a breakfast club but that should be all....

FPT, I'm tired, but I think the school day (9-3) is around about 6 hours...

Fakeplastictrees sorry to correct you as I agree with what you are sayingbut 6 hours would be 930-330 or 10-4

Yeah lets re-open workhouses while we are at it - that's where they used to send the poor people, right?
And send the kids up the chimneys. Why not - everyone should be doing their bit.

If there were bloody jobs for folk to go into I would be more inclined to agree that the jobless are just lazy bastards.

But a LOTS are not. Lots are skilled and screwed workers/graduates who went through the system and jumped through the hoops put before them by the governments of the past only to be shafted by the same governement who eradicated workforces and sold complanies and stuff to private sectors who took the work elsewhere.

I am beyond rage about this.

Want forced labour? What about getting prisoners who have committed actual crimes to do the voluntary work for their keep!?

Oh no wait, lets give them the vote and playstations and the chance to learn skills for free while providing shelter, heat during the winter and 3 meals a day.

Something is cocked up here.....

WRT 6 hour days, does that include breaks or not do you reckon?

Do all schools have after school care then?

And is it free?

An hour each way? Not sure if it would apply in every case, but certainly using public transport up here around rush hour/school hours it would take at least 40 minutes to get into town. Much longer if you had to get ot a location outside of town that required 2 buses.

We live about 7 miles from the centre of town by the way.

nope not many, and I cant imagine its free, so government would haveto pay, again I dont think this idea will actually work, but if it does go through I think they will take into account things like childcare, school hours etc and maybe reduce 30 hours to 25 in some cases.

Please do not flame me

My friend is sitting over my shoulder and has completed a Phd in the subject of 'ahem' excuse me for quoting him.

"The Working Class Ethic of Enterprise and Improvement"

He grew up in an impoverished area of Teeside, went onto to University and then went on to do a Phd.

He was young/old enough to see the steel works go down the pan and old enough to remember them in their prime.

He remembers the art workshops, embroidery classes, the brass bands, gardening clubs, opera societies, writing classes, evening classes that catered for everything and anything from basic accountancy to Al a Carte cooking.

He very reluctantly came up with the conclusion that when there is no work there is no ambition left to aim for something 'better'. The kids have never known 'better' or 'different' so therefore what can they show their children that a factory is horrible and choose something different?

Their grandfathers' knew from experience that factory work is tough and hard and getting up at 6am on a winter's morning is crap. Education was a way out of that and a child at university was something to be soooo proud of.

No example - no change.

(May name change after this - thank you Martin - post yourself next time - he is in the loo)

And send.........................

Send any flames to Martin

ok this is what I think, it will be to replace jobs that are being cut in public sector, obviously not the highly skilled, however it maybe used in local children's centre, council offices, cleaning, even job centre etc, therefor may even be at your child's school, but I also dont think they will be targeting parents, not initially anyway, In theory it is a good idea, said by someone on benifits, however I dont think the Volunteers will be made to feel welcome by paid staff, either from fear of more job losses or prejudice around peopleon benifits.

Good point kaloki. I think the law states a minimum of 20 minutes if you're working 6 hours.

Sun cottage, quick point, not just working class on benifits any more, lots of us have professional parents, have been to Uni and have even had good jobs ourselves...

Yes exactly why just assume only the WC are on benefits ..plus back in the day some factory work was very well paid ,especially in the shoe and hosiery industry