Faith Schools `favour middle class over poor`

[idlingabout]

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/nov/01/faith-schools-admissions-unfair
This is the headline in to-days Guardian paper (but online headline is slightly different). I was just surprised that this was deemed news as this is patently obvious in my area.Of the 2-3 children from dds primary who get into the high performing CoE secondary each year every single one of them has been from a solidly middle class family. Free school meal % in the faith school is 2%; in our catchment school and most in the area it is over 6%.
Aplogies if I don`t come back to respond for a while as I will be out.

The best thing about our local churches is the range of backgrounds of the people who attend with their pre-schoolers. Who knew that people from such wide ranging faiths as Greek Orthodox and Judaism didn't mind people taking a little time out to try CofE for a while

"Bobblemeat you are being over generous in your attribution of 10% of running costs paid by the church. This is not the case. 100% of running costs are met by the state, and 90% of capital costs. The financial contribution of the church is tiny."

I didn't say anything about 10% of anything .

Our school is on land 100% owned by the church. It was bought after decades of fundraising. The school building is also owned by the church. The govenment pay 100% of the running costs but as Catholics are also tax payers and Catholic children are entitled to an education and only 40% of the school atendees are Catholic (nationwide, 30% of pupils at Catholic schools are not Catholic) I don't have a problem with this. The govenment pays 90% of new building work but the whilst the remaining 10% may not seem a lot in the grand scheme (its about £20million a year), it seems a lot when you are trying to raise it and it is money that would otherwise come from tax. I'm not trying to claim its the be all and end all or even the point of my arguement. In addition to the financial contribution, there is also the army of nuns who help out in schools providing 1000s of nunhours.

Its the fact that the land and buildings are not owned by the state that is the issue. If the govenment aren't prepared to buy the land and buildings then they can't expect total control of the school. I don't think people would still be saying its a tiny amount if the govenment started handing over millions for land and buildings which they currently use for free.

I think its awful that some people have such a shitty choice of schools, and I think its awful that people feel they have to play the system to such a ridiculous extent and there is no doubt that the marginilised, the disorganised, the poor, the guileless, the uneducated etc are going to be at yet another disadvantage but not more than they are in a house price catchment school, or a school thats not on a bus route, or a school with an expensive uniform etc.

The only truely fair system is a lottery and even then it would end up being engineered so that the the residents of Toffsville and Moneytown would be put in the lottery for the high achieving schools that they already live right next to in their expensive houses and the residents of DownandOutsville would be but in the lottery for the shitty schools for 'transport reasons'.

I feel very lucky that my church decided to build our lovely school next to a sewereage works. The smell has forced all the competetive parents up the street to the outstanding community school.

Out of interest dud you see my post about religious schools asking illegal questions and for bribes donations, earlier upthread? That certainly weeded out the poorer students. The schools in the report way they have tightened up since then but it wasn't too long ago and TBH you've got to wonder.

If schools are still doing that it is of course indefensible (and also now technically illegal I think?).

I think this is probably thought about the differnces this much. Of course I knew they were there, but I never really thought about it. Makes me feel very lucky to have the choice that I do, at least for primary.

I did see your post about schools asking illegal questions, and that is obviously outrageous. I hope they are a small minority.

Probably the first time I thought about the differences

Sorry. Got DH prattling on next to me about online pool and a dog going crazy at fireworks!

I do think the vicars/priests in the London area should drop the points system and just go for those closest to the school as it is giving an unfair advantage to the middle class and many relious leaders are recognising this, however, as many people have said this does not happen in other parts of the country. In my area the two top performing comprehensives are not faith schools but have just declared themselves academies, since the academy scheme was launched. Let's see their admissions criteria next year!

My local school had an outstanding ofsted but my DC would rather go to the faith school with his mates and that is freeing up other places for the kids to go to the outstanding comp. Interestingly when I visited the so-called community school, the local vicar is on the advisory body so in my opinion that does not make it secular and all the children are white. My neighbours are Indian and have chosen the same local faith school precisely because it is more integrated.

Grammar schools in this area are a joke. Most of the people that get in come from a prep school so they are definitely only for the mc.

Not all the kids at my DCs primary school were of the same religion and my kids have visits from lots of different people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Today they have been learning about Islam and had a visitor from the local Mosque. They also learn about evolution and creationalism and are encouraged to think about both. The school follows the national curriculum.

If the only co-ed school in my area was a faith school, I would definitely try and get my kids in as I have one of each and am not sending them to separate schools.

It would be great if all so-called secular schools were equal but they are not and it would be naive to ever think they would be. If everybody went to the school closest to their house, those schools would just reflect the socio-economic and ethnic background of that area which would lead to more discrmination. To get rid of private schools is also naive. Imagine this Little Basil lives in Knightsbridge and goes to the local school. They have wealthy parents with a wealthy PTA and therefore will be able to raise more funds espcially since private school fees are no longer payable thefore that school would have better facilities within two years. Compare that to Little Jonny growing up in inner-city Birmingham with a poor PTA. Utopia in education would be very difficult to achieve.

There is a huge problem in this country with different systems in different areas.
I think the only fair system would be catchments but to ensure those catchments have a mix. I realise that in larger towns/cities this is more of ac challenge. I live in a rural area with a nearby town. Catchments here would work. In my immediate area there is social housing, a largeish former council estate, a number of small housing estates of 2/3 bedroom semis and terraces and then lots of varied houses. We have a genuine mix at the primary schools it just all changes at secondary. Basically, when selection was discontinued some years ago, people saw the CoE mixed secondary as an option to colonise. Quite early on, the girls school significantly outperformed the boys school so parents of boys started to look for other options - ie the faith school.
It is not the quality of the teaching at the faith school which gets the results, it is the quality of the intake and the support of the parents. The whole situation is further complicated by a high number of prep schools in the area; again a number of families pay for prep then start going to church to get their kids in to the faith school, particularly if they can`t get in to the very highly selective independent grammar in the next town along.