Preparation for mass exodus of poor from London

[SkippyjonJones]

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oct/24/exodus-poor-families-from-london

I am sure it will not just affect Londoners, I am someone who rents myself so I am aware of how much it costs to rent a house/ flat. It is sadly just a part of life that if you fall on hard times it is not always possible to coninue living as you were.

I lived in London for years, my husband left me and I knew we could not afford to stay. Even though it caused severe upheaval for me and my baby daughter and meant leaving everyone I knew and a successful career I knew I had to leave. It did not enter my head that I could ask the state to pa extortionate rents,

But vespasian, supposing there is a recession and thousands of people loose their jobs. Do you really think it's a good idea to make them move en masse?

Or fair that the bankers still get bonuses and we are instead forced to bear the brunt of their mistakes?

How a society treats its vunerable is a sign of how civilised it is IMO. This is pretty backward IMO.

I think allowing people to live in some of the most expensive real estate areas disincetivises people from providing for themselves.

If I had been housed in an expensive area of London I may never have afforded to pay the rent myself, I would be truly in the benefit trap. Instead I went away and slowly worked my way up.

There is a village that we wanted to live in, despite earning a good wage we could not afford it. So I spent a number of years working hard, getting promotions and saving money. I am about to move into that village, still can't afford to buy but that is a different thread.

What is the point in paying National Insurance and taxes?

"The State" includes money, paid by you!

I can't understand why people have such a problem with this. It seems very sensible to me that we all pay into a pot, and then if you need help you get it.

But MOST of london is expensive

Are you saying that everyone who is potentially at risk of loosing their job (and in a recession that's most of us) should move out of London and rent somewhere cheaper just in case?

That doesn't make any sense! There are 8 million in London - if most of them moved out, rents would go up elsewhere.

Then if 'extortionate rents' are the problem - don't punish the tenants....bring back rent control and build tons of social housing (and don't make it cost 80% of market value to rent out). But there is no way in hell this govt will do any of that. It will take a revolution to destroy the selfish competitive market focussed nature of the current system - which produces mentalities that reflect those values in people who actually gain nothing really from thinking in selfish, competitive ways, hating each other while the rich get away with it. Riven's point about Landlord David Cameron being a very good case in point.

I grew up in a dodgy area of London. It's still a dodgy area -we had crack dealers openly trading at the end of the street. House prices went up around us, driving rent over the cap. I didn;t choose to live in an expensive area, it got expensive around me!

Lowerib your right like said in my posts I don't live in London but in commuter distance 30 mibs by train and the prices for rent or to buy here are through the roof

and if more left London for here there push the rents up more so the poor here who ate already struggling going to be pushed out even further along with the Londoners who can't afford to rent here as the cap is lower and more demand won't see landlords droping prices to meet the cap

it's how far do you push the poor out some nice lithos ghetto somewhere

only reason I drawn attention to fact ITs not just affecting Londoner us that people focus on the 2k hb and that they don't consider how it will affect everyone

If thousands have to move en masse landlords will have to lower their rents, landlords need tenants.

I think these high benefit payouts are creating a more divided society. There are areas where you can only live if you are very poor or very rich. Don't think for one moment that the very rich are using the same schools as the very poor. The state, therefore is paying out over 20 billion to create ghettos of poverty.

vespasian what about if there's another recession, caused by fallout from the banking crisis.

You have paid into the system for years, form your job. Say you loose your job, because fo the recession - why shouldn't you expect some help while you weather the storm, and look for work?

Why should you have to loose the home you've worked so hard for?

You obviously don;t know London very well! One of the great things about London is that many (not all, but many) areas are genuinely mixed in terms of rich and poor - and those in the middle too!

peasantgoneroundthebend4 you're right it doesn't just affect Londoners.

I'm just banging my head on the wall trying to dispell this myth that this is about benefit scroungers living in mansions.

In fact it's about what happens to ordinary people - rich and poor - when we fall on hard times, through things beyond our control like recession (or illness, or DV, or misfortune).

I'm so sick of the spin.

I have no problem with people receiving help while they look for work but it has to be done in a measured sensible way. This need not involve the state spending more on housing benefit than it does on the police and university education together.

I did lose my home and everthing I owned, I got help but I acknowledged that it would be unreasonable for me to stay in an expensive area of London so I moved.

Ok I'm not in London and yes before it's pointed out the £500 week cap won't affect ne as ds is disabled though would swap that in a heartbeat then might still have a job and maybe a marriage though marriage doubtfully

but ok if was without ds 3 sn

£500 week cap

Minus £300 for rent than another £50 for council tax

now £150 left take of £20 for gas same for eletric that's
£110 - 20 for water and tv license a week now down yo

£90 a week to feed and clothed adult and 4 dc which dies not allow for things breaking down or shoes or coats or the money wanted for schools for trips that ate linked to your dc gcse education

oh and notice not included car or petrol or any public transport costs in that

And I don't even live in London where the rents are higher and my rents normal in most areas not just the SE

I have lived in London for about 15 years, I admit to knowing pockets of London very well and other parts of it less well. As soon as I stopped being a very high earner I could no longer afford to stay because rents are so high. My family who all claim benefits all stayed in London, those of us who all got normal jobs had to leave.

What about the nice place you're about to move into vespasian? Are you happy to move again once the next recession hits, while the bankers continue to receive bonuses? Does Hastings appeal? (sorry to pick on hastings but it was in the Observer story).

Vespian but how do you call measured way uprooting people from their communities dc from schools and lumping us in one area which leads to social breakdown dc not having any good role models because everyone in their community is in the same mess

Strain on already strained resources in education and health

My husband and I have had to move when things get tough and have lived in places far worse than Hastings! So if we had to move because the recession hit us we would do.

Yes and has anyoneooked at howuch it's going to cost to house the familes in B and B and the costs on resources ,education for school placed the strain on familes mentally

I really must go and do some work! If anyone sees me here again please tell me to go do my college work! [grin}

I can't help get sucked into this. Simply put, the ignorance, naivity and downright meanness of some posters makes me so !

vespasian can you not see that moving people en masse to areas they have no ties to might be a bad idea?

Lowrib you don't know me so it is rather harsh to typecast me as mean or ignorant.

I have lived on benefits, I have lost everthing I have and been forced to move, I do rent my home and have lived in London . That hardly makes me ignorant, I just have a different view.

I think the one thing I was most grateful for was the fact that when my marriage disintegrated and my H left me for the OW, I didn't have to uproot the DCs. They were already struggling with the loss of living with their Dad and my DD was walking around crying "daddy gone, daddy lost". I never ever expected me to end up needing state help but it did happen and I was very grateful to the Government for keeping a roof over my head and helping me put food on the table for an 11 month old and a 2 and a quarter year old. It also gave me DCs stability remaining in the same small 2 bed flat. They share a room. I too do not have a plasma tv, new car or any of the other things people apparently can afford on benefits. I haven't been on holiday since 2005.

Yep because my area the rents would fly up if mas exodus from London which would then mean rent goes even further over the cap here

Cap here for a 4 bed with new rules is £900 a month in east herts which I thought there having a laugh but if people can't afford London move here as compared to alondon it is cheap so rent goes up here and I'm then forced to move out but where to ?

Where are all the poor people meant to go and you get large pockets if poor people and social unrest rises in those areas trapping people even more in poverty