So child benefit to go for higher rate taxpayers

[foxinsocks]

So says George osbourne on breakfast telly. Missed the details but sounds like it comes in from 2013!

I may have missed it but what is going to happen to all those people who's income is variable and only sometimes crosses into HRT. They are going to be well and truly stuffed!

I can see the scene now - 'Perkins, we have decided to give you a small bonus to show how pleased we are with you - Perkins, why are you crying?'

We are entering a new Micawber age but in reverse - income £43,875 result happiness, income £43,876 result misery.

GO has, with a single announcement this morning, created a middle-income benefits trap.

So if we accept that there is an economic necessity to make government spending cuts somewhere, and that universal flat rate CB isn't a sacred cow, what else could they do instead?

Does anyone remember that not so long ago there used to be a child element to the tax allowance? How about if that was to be reinstated instead of CB, with the amount of the allowance paid at different rates for different age children - perhaps a highest rate for those below the age where the free nursery hours entitlement kicks in, dropping then, and going down a bit more when they start primary, and down again (or perhaps stopping altogether) for secondary age.

Thus the payments would be targetted more at those on lower incomes and would also reflect the practicality of working. With tinies it's very hard to do and as likely as not childcare costs wipe out any income anyway, but as they get older those with primary age children do have more time potentially available to work, and so on. Being realistic for most people the practicalities (rather than the current economics) of working with an infant or a teenager in the household aren't the same, so perhaps having the same tax/benefits treatment for children of all ages isn't necessary.

Match that up to employer incentives to offer family friendly working which fits in with school hours so that not working does become a lifestyle choice rather than an economic necessity for more people and the economy also benefits from more people being able to be economically active if they want to.

Justine Greening, a Treasurey minister has just reinterated George's Osborne's comment about the average income of higher rate tax payers being £70,000.

At least this time she said it was the median....

I predict a riot...

"What really grates is that many of our friends, who already have a higher NET income than us, as they a dual salary families and can access all sorts of credits and the like, plus getting £12,000 pa tax free within the household and keeping to a lower tax bracket, earn over £44,000 between them BUT WILL NOT LOSE THEIR CB..."

Now that I do agree with, being the sole earner in our household (lower rate taxpayer). I can't for the life of me understand why this Govt is starting off in self destruct mode by approaching what should be a sensible proposal in a way that's so blatantly unfair. We too would be much better off if we both worked part time, avoiding childcare costs, and earned the same as my single salary. That has always grated on me, so I can understand the POV of a single income higher rate taxpaying family.

I find it hard to believe that no account is taken of HOW MANY people a £44K+ income is supporting.

It's effectively taxing women who stay at home. It's not an unreasonable polical agenda, but it would have been nice if they'd made it clear that that was an objective before we all voted ...

Parents who stay at home you mean?

Oh pshaw, the vast vast majority of parents who stay at home are women. Sadly.

Not in my household Quattro. But I accept most SAHP's are women and doing something like this certainly isn't likely to change it. My DH already has difficulty with the financial side of things and "living off me" as he sees it (I don't, I see it that we jointly earn the money). If I was a HRT and he was losing CB I think it would be a very bad psychological blow for him. Putting it like that, in fact, I am changing my opinion about the whole policy.

I don't have a view as to whether it's reasonable or unreasonable, Lenin. It's not an unreasonable agenda to get more women into the workplace, and arguably necessary for society. My issue is that this wasn't something that was clearly stated in the agenda of any political party.

I'm livid!! DH is serving in the Army and is just in the higher tax bracket, 42K. He is the sole earner as I'm a SAHM with 1yr old twins and a 6yr old; at the moment I would have to pay out more on childcare costs than I earn if I worked. So we would lose our benefit, but a family who jointly earns £70k with say 2 school age children keep their benefit, unfair, unjust and down right scandalous.

We have such a raw deal as it is with CB. At the moment we're lucky enough to be stationed in germany so am entitled to claim up to the german level of CB (Kindergelt as its called) from the german government. Don't ask me why as we pay UK tax!?!? but we can. So I receive £180 from the UK and then the German government tops me up to the level that a german mother would receive. The german government pay me more than the UK!! I receive 310 euros a month from them!!

I just hope that people react in such a way that the government see how unfair this would be.
Child Benefit Riots..maybe not but something has to be done!!!!!

Child benefit will continue to be paid of course, whatever the income. This is just a very significant tax rise for those higher rate earners who are supporting families. Obviously it would be much fairer and simpler to implement a smaller tax rise for all higher rate earners. But Tories don't raise taxes do they? They cut benefits. But in reality this is simply a peculiarly unjust tax hike.

Just wondered if anyone knew about the NI contributions for someone like me who is a stay at home mum. At the moment the CB pays basic NI towards the state pension, as I will now not qualify (don't even get me started on that) will my pension suffer too?

afaik that hasn't been clarified, Lottiegal, but it seems as if you can continue to claim CB, & thus still get the pension credits, but your HRT partner will pay extra tax to compensate.

(So not so simple & straightforward after all )

Patti70, if your DH's gross income is £42k then you won't be affected. The HRT threshold is c £44K gross (c £37K after the earned income allowance is deducted).

So you may be OK (this time )

Noddyholder - just seen your post below. Was DLA around when you were on dialysis? I think quite a lot of our patients get that now at least.

I am going to be affected by this. But if it means that my young children might have a hope in hell in the UK, then I am happy to contribute to the overall nightmare that is UK Plc.

Considering it is the voters of Middle England who have supposedly determined the outcome of the elections over the last 14 years, surely Ed Milliband is rubbing his hands in glee?

Do you know for the first time ever I actually considered voting Tory for about one second at the last election. Thankfully I suspected that they were a bunch of wolves in sheeps clothing and stuck with Labour. At least I can feel "clean" even if we will be eating pot noodles for the rest of our lives. Thousands of other people must be feeling mighty pissed off considering that they voted Tory in on the basis of a lie.

I kind of agree with Quatto that in the long term encouraging women to return to the workplace is a good thing but this is not the right way of doing it. In fact it actually makes it harder for me return to work because the CB would have used to pay a childminder as I won't be earning anything in the short term. Now I can't see how I can ever afford to get to work. Oh silly me I should of realised that you are only allowed ambition if you are poor or rich those living in households earning £45k are just there to prop up the country.

So taking child benefit away from more than a million families and canceling the building of new schools is fair?!
According to the government we need nuclear weapons (Trident) more. A lot of people have already commented on the reasons why taking away the child benefit is not fair, so I won't repeat them. Instead I would consider these areas:
Incapacity benefit (I know a lot of people who could work, but won't)
and nuclear weapons. I really don't want to be part of a country that puts these ahead of education and childrens welfare.

Having lived in other European countries, I can clearly see
Britain desperately needs to put more money into education and new school buildings.

I think something is seriously wrong with David Cameron's priorities.

2013 this will come in - 3yrs is a long time in ploitics especially with a coaliation government .

The whole way that it has been worked out is bizarre - joint income of £80k where both are lower tax workers - still get it ? But some one just over - doesn't ?

Although I voted Tory - obviously dont agree with this and will not justify it.

If they are going to do this then they also need to cut winter fuel payments to OAP who dont need it .

As a said three years is a long time in polictics so not going to lose too much sleep about it . Still bloody !

Why does the government not scrap child benefit for people who claim and that child doesn't even live in the UK.
Also why is their not just a set income amount Ie earn over 80k a year single or joint then you get the benefit. I believe there should be a cap on the number if children you pay out for, three or four is enough in my view.

This policy is so full of double standards. For any other benefit household income or indeed savings are taken into account. I know someone who cannot claim any benefits as her dh has savings. So she is totally dependent on her dh for money. Indeed I have never claimed any benefits in my life except chb and very small ctc as I have either been working or raising a family with a hrt. My chb was my only income.

So much for self respect.

Now they are telling us that actually its not about family income any more but indiv. The whole thing stinks and is so unfair to single parents and SAHP.