New study claims ADHD 'has a genetic link

[2shoes]

hopes this helps the families

"They found that 15% of the ADHD group had large and rare variations in their DNA - compared with 7% in the control group."

So 85% of the children with ADHD didn't have the variation?

And given how 7% of the children who didn't have ADHD had the same variation I'm really not sure how strong a link it being shown here.

At 7am i woke up to the headlines on R4 finally confirming that as mum of 3 boys with ADHD & Autism....it's not because i am a bad parent.

And I was walking head held high etc....... the headline changed to 'findings are skewed/flawed/misinterpreted'

And i am back to square 1.

It seems to me that the ONLY way anyone will ever take ADHD seriously is if a there were a test, like a pregnancy test, where it had 1 blue line for NO ADHD and 2 blue lines for POSITIVE ADHD.

It is real. I am NOT a bad parent.

You almost certainly aren't a bad parent and I don't think the 'ADHD is just bad parenting' has been a commonly held view for some time. ADHD diagnosis, like most mental illnesses, is still highly subjective and there's no getting away from that. What we know today that we didn't know yesterday is that there's a 1 in 6 chance that ADHD sufferers have a faulty gene in their make-up that might have made their condition more likely. You can add this to the known environmental/physical elements that increase the risk of developing the condition. And I'm sure you've also identified certain things that make the your children's symptoms better or worse...without scientific confirmation.

Surely it is not a choice between genetic link and poor parenting? There could be all sorts of possible other explanations, and lots of varying causes, we just don't know yet.

"It is real. I am NOT a bad parent."

My issues are just with the figures and the way there were trumpeted for a while as showing an important link. The vast majority of people with ADHD do not have this genetic variation.

The variation is also pretty common among people without ADHD.

Out of 10,000 people 2%, 200, will apparently have ADHD.

For people without ADHD 7% have the variation, so 7% of 9,800 is 686.

For people with ADHD 14% have the condition, so 14% of 200 is 28.

So out of 714 people in total with the condition from that batch of 10,000 only 28 have ADHD too.

28 out of 714 is 3%.

So if you've got that variant you have a 3% chance of ADHD. True that's 50% higher than the normal chance but it's still small and given the small sample sizes used for this survey very questionable.

This study was not a 'survey' methodology and was not conducted on a 'small sample size' by typical scientific study standards. There were over 1,400 participants. The researchers only looked at a very small number of the best known CNVs (copy number variants) - hence why they have described the similarity to genes associated with autism....they looked for the most obvious ones because of the serious amount of time it would take to go beyond that at this stage. The interpretation of the study has to be taken in this context - it is an initial study that undoubtedly will lead to a whole range of other studies looking at other CNVs. One study was not going to be able to account for everything but is a clear indication that a complete identification of the genes involved in ADHD is not far away. This study is very promising for understanding the genetic factors that underlie ADHD.

I found it an odd headline
I didn't think people thought that?

Unfortunately despite considerable evidence for genetic factors in ADHD, and this study showing very specific evidence at the level of a chromosome, there are still views put about in the media and beyond (on here for example) that ADHD symptoms are caused primarily by environmental factors....I share your concern....on the level that it should be an odd headline!

Mrs F . It's pretty widely recogniosed that ASD and ADHD are oinked and not about bad aprenting. Anyuone worth knwoing professionally knows this. And I have 2 diagnosed with ASD, and one who has ADD / dyspraxia. Alsoa toddler that I think has some AS coming through.

AS for teh rest... just wanted to challenge the idea that ADD / ADHD kids are naughty and that it equates to lenient aprenting. DS2 is anything but naughty; a report from school I woudl challenge any parent not to feel proud of- kind, generous, a rarely seen enthusiasm for learning. The fact is also that he has a very short attention spand and regularly gets wedged into those small holes in the back of school chairs (!), but absolutely not naughty. And neitehr am I in denial; ds1 (luckily not ds3) is about as naughty as it gets (sadly)

On a more general basis.... I suspect ADHD will now go the way of my 'specialism' (in ' marks as it's MA not PhD!)..... the mroe causes are known then the less and less we will refer to ASD / ASc / ADHD but to it's constitutnet disorders:

mitichondrial dysfunction
genetic disorder

etc

probably a good thing- it's terribly sad knwoing the grief that parents of chidlren with a disorder get because X knew someone who treated her kids badly and they ahd a dx of.....

Apart from wanting to bury every copy of Bowlby, it's just so sad.

There was a chat about it on the radio yesterday, Jeremy Vile I expect. 'How come it's single mothers have adhd kids? Shows its bad aprenting doesnt it'

Nope, I screamed at the radio, maybe a child who is demanding places you at risk of dovorce ( a fact looking at wider SN) or a parent with a genetic adhd themselves is less likely to be able to maintain a marriage

arggghhhhhhh

I actually emailed BBC breakfast about the way in which Sian whatserface described it.
"new research suggests that ADHD is a brain abnormaility similar to Autism and not down to bad parenting or poor diet"

now i am sure she doesn't mean it that way but to some that will come across as " some scientist somewhere reckons it might be a brani problem but the general concensus is still that its all the mothers fault"

It's not proven yet but the consensus in my experience is that it's not just similar to asd, but linked. Best guess admittedly but ex[periential.

certainly we're told that we should be aware of any ADD / ADHD behaviours in kids who ahve an ASC label and make sure they are picked up on as separate entities. Also, lots of famillies like mine and MrsF's where ASC and ADHD / ADD run together.

Not just those two either- dyspraxia, dyslexia, dyscalculia........ there just seems to be a apattern but no idea if anyone doing teh research or not.

We do know though that aprents with a history of depression have a bigger chance of having a child with an ASC so whetehr that's genetic or environmental- who knows?

And I depsise the way environmental is taken to mean /Mum's fault' and not for eg stres in preganancy, or completely unavoidable issues..... there's something rather mysogynistic about that.

Some kids are wrongly labelled my sister KNEW her DS had it before he was 2 because he never sat or slept.He was medicated from about 3 but it never made one iota of difference.She never had any boundaries in place and did nothing but shout [at all 3]never any sort of praise for them.
I fought to get my DS and DD2 [inattentive type] diagnosed DS has ASD and complex learning difficulties as well but I was fobbed off about DD2 'as she wasn't like DS'. never said she was found out she was hypersensitive to additives though and by god you knew if she'd been given something she shouldn't have school noticed a difference as soon as we stopped all additives.Her primary teacher couldn't praise her enough with her wanting to help everyone his favourite saying about her was 'she'd give you the coat off her back' but as he said she wasn't the worst but some parents didn't care.
She's nearly 15 now and is learning to manage her behavior better but is on meds as well, and we do know if she hasn't had them.

Yes some kids are worngly labelled but that means nothing to those who are correctly diagnosed does it?

Is the child taking ritalin btw? I ask becuase AFAIK if a child doesn;t respond to ritalin tehy;re supposed to be assessed again as it rules out chemical adhd but that's old material and in no way implies the child doesn't have ADD etc- see post below about multiple disorders going under same titles!
I had to fight like Hell to get dx's too; there's food intolerances tied up in teh boy's ASC too (4/6 of us have dairy, casein, intol and have from birth and ds1 has gluten issues)

The research was interesting to me as my DS has ASD and when I see the paediatrician next week I expect to be told DS has a co-morbid diagnosis of ADHD. I have never seen S as having ADHD, he is my only child and is very active but tbh I just thought "active boy" rather than there being any reason behind the activity (very high levels of activity). The activity has never concerned me and I have managed DS with no problems.
However, all during the assessments for his ASD various professionals commented on high activity levels and when he was diagnosed the paediatrician asked me if I had ever considered ADHD? She explained that ASD rarely exists in isolation and there is usually a co-morbid diagnosis - she thought in DS this was ADHD. That was six months ago and there have been further investigations/assessments and observations since that time. The school have also had an assessment form to complete. I suspect it will be confirmed next week and then the whole question of whether or not to use medication will begin. My instinct is NOT as DS is perfectly manageable without. On the other hand if it would help him concentrate in school then I am all for it as this is where he really struggles.

As for the research - well it shows a small number of cases may be down to a genetic influence but much more research is needed.

SanctiMoanyArse he was on various drugs including Ritalin until 12 when he went to live with his dad and then he stopped taking it, I saw him at 14 and must admit that he was a totally different boy calm sat and had a conversation with me and opened up about his mother [sisters answer to everything is I'm going to send you to your fucking fathers] he's a lovely young man now [he'll be 18 this month] no thanks to my sister his dad has worked wonders with him.
I was just pointing out that there was a minority of misdiagnosed kids in years gone by don't know about now.
My sister is a bit of a know all she has worked with disabled children and adults all her life and thinks she's an expert.

thanks SanctiMoanyArse

I felt very emotional reading your posts...as you said so well what i feel.

For me , having 3 with AS/ADHD.... I just wonder sometimes...what percentage of the percentages....i'd fall into....

additionally... I have OCD and am sure if there were a simple bloodtest etc...I'd be found to have AS too.

And....My husband....

And.....My parents.....and my brother....and his eldest daughter (age 3 parents think that as she is a girl she won't 'catch' (Grrrrrr) ASD!!!!)

A real genetic cocktail....

That is why the slightest hint of a genetic link interested me...as it reflects what my life demonstrates.

The AS/ASD/ADHD link i am particularily interested in... MY longheld theory (based purely on my family experiences etc) is that IF there were a genetic link....it would follow they had ASD too.... and the ADHD'ers that had NO co-morbids etc...would be the ones that showed no genetic link...and were better responsive to diet changes etc.

For me... My experience of ADHD is that diet has no impact (ie colourings etc) - The 'hyperactivity' shown IS different in an ASD person than in a 'typical-everyones'idea-of-what-ADHD-is....ie....red cheeked...running everywhere...destructive'

To me, ASD hyperactivity is about increased talking about favourite subject...pacing around (inability to stay still)- climbing on and off things- increase of repetitive movements (hand flapping/spinning things etc), sensory overloads, chewing &fiddling with things .... etc

So all 3 of mine take methylphenidate (concerta) and it lessons the 'hyperactivity behaviours' i mentioned above.

But...when i tell people my sons have ADHD...they don't believe me...they have never seen mine running manicly around...cos they don't...but when the meds wear off.... they start to fidget/squirm/climb/pace/spin/chew/talk excessivley/get irratated by noises & smells....

For me...this shows another 'difference' between the 'typical ' ADHD and the ASD /ADHD... the effect/result of meds...

Basically, ASD people do NOT easily learn appropriate behaviours... they can persist to do 'the wrong thing' despite getting shouted at 100's of times...they never seem to learn. They continue to get in the same fights at school...they don't seem to have the ability to 'learn from mistakes' etc....

So...the meds...while on them they cope better.
When they wear off, they return to exactly as they were....

However...what i was lead to believe with 'ADHD/meds' was whilst on the meds...there is a 'window of opertunity' to 'educate' the child in appropriate behaviours...

So for years i tried... and it made no difference- and some say then whats the point of meds? So...we experimented without meds...and their self esteem lowered...

The point is for an ASD child... to exist in a world that is constanly confusing and in which they 'never seem to get it right'.... to have a few hours under the meds means they get a break from failure.

I don't know if this applies to all ASD's...

The thing is, if mine don't take meds.. .. they feel the difference.The problem is at 19 they have no automatic right to continue the meds- as its not licenmsd for adults.

I do remember being told that people with ADHD can grow out of it when I went to a BIBIC talk but that was a long time ago. Things change don't they?

the meds thing is absed on the idea that Ritalin is in fact a drug like speed- it fires you up. Unless you have adhd in which case it ahs the opposite effect. But I was discussing that on here with another lady and whilst we both remember it from before, we were both aware we were out of date on our ADHD stuff.

It's hard not to feel like a know all when you've SN work experience or academia and a few dx's lying about. Sorry if I come across like that. I don't try to.

Argh that came out wrong- I dont feel like a know all, I am aware of my gaps! Loads of them

Itsnot to come across as a stuck up know it all (even if you know youre not) is what I meant

I know what you meant,DS's paediatrician told me he doesn't believe you outgrow it just learn to manage the behaviors better DN was never any better on meds in fact he was worse. sister just thought all children should sit still all the time.
I had him on occasion as did my other sister and to us he was just a normal active and extremely bright boy.

Wrell, comparing ADHD to AS that I know I have, I totally agree that coping mechanisms are what happens as you age.

Although sometimes those coping mechanism aren't very healthy at all so it can be a problem (have a tendency towards self isolation myself)

Sometimes though I guess it can mitigate it completely- for example Tesco lights send DS1 off the scale. When he grows up ds1 will probably never go in a Tesco; problem solved.

SanctiMoanyArse

You have not come across as a 'know-it-all'....
I feel the same...people think i 'know-it-all'...especially teachers etc...when i suggest strategies etc...but its just having the experience i have...and a functional brain... well.....:o

what you said about your son and tesco is spot on.... my eldest has just started college...he's now doing ONLY ICT...no PE...no Art...No maths...No english.... JUST his 'specialist subject'...and better than that in the class there are several dx with AS... several with ADHD....all totally hyper-interested in everything computer and xbox related.... and suddenly he has friends!!!!

Only 6 months ago...i was getting calls from school concerned about his attendance...approaching exams etc.... now he gets the 8am train.... and looks so much happier.

He even 'socialises' at lunchtime! (at school he was such a loner)

SanctiMoanyArse...what i meant to add was like you said...your ds will not have to go to tesco...my son does not have to now go in the environment that upset him so much...

so alot of the 'stressors' DO dissapear...and related symptoms with them....and the 'still present' underlying condition is less noticable/troublesome.

hope that makes sense!!!!

Perfect sense MrsF!