SCRAPPING NHS DIRECT PETITION

[beammeupscotty]

Lots of people have had good experiences of NHS Direct, others not so good. But the proposal to replace highly qualified nurses with unqualified call handlers will result in a dangerous service. It will also result in more people attending A&E and GPs.

The initial trials for 111 have already demonstrated this as it errs on the side of caution, as these people cannot make valued judgements. By signing the petition it will provoke a debate in the House of Commons and the truth will have to come out with a lot of interesting statistics from the trials of 111.

At the moment it is shrouded in secrecy and rumour. I know that NHS Direct will not exist in any form (even within 111) as NHSD will lose its monopoly and will be undercut for contracts, because the tenders will only be enploying the lowest qualified (and non qualified) staff they can get away with. I think it is a service which will only be missed and valued when its gone.

Even if you dont like NHS Direct you need the debate in the open to at least be aware of the real service you will be getting, and not some of the airy fairy statements I have heard from the new government ministers about how 'seamless' 111 will be. What we as service users need is the best of NHS Direct and the proposed 'one stop' approach of 111. I fear though, a degraded, cheap and worthless service as part of the tax cuts, and we need the debate to open this up and look at the real implications for the future.

THIS IS THE LINK FOR THE PETITION
www.savenhsdirect.co.uk/

what do you mean when you say the truth will have to come out about 111?

[puzzled]

As NhS111 has been running for less than a week, I'm deeply sceptical about claims about its performance.

There have been 2 threads about this topic already. Should there be a sweepstake on how many more?

The 111 service is not an advice line as NHSD is. It is designed to channel people to the appropriate service. It will supposedly make appointments for you with your GP if the call handler (non qualified and following a script) deems it necessary.

You may still have the fight for an appointment. And if there are no appointments available?? NEVER heard that from a GP receptionist!! Where do you go ? A walk in centre and not a GP who knows you and your LOs? A&E and wait far longer than now because their attendances will increase? Will there be more money poured into these services (hardly cost cutting then, so no decrease in our taxes!). Where will all the extra doctors come from? Do we poach doctors from overseas again as we have in past shortages?

NHS 111 is only running a trial at the moment and looking at the hiccups that will occur. One that has already been highlighted is because these call handlers are not qualified medically in any way, their outcome regarding sending people to GP/A&Es is far higher than when assessed by a nurse. This presumably is what the Government dont want!

There may be other threads on this topic and I am not interested in 'NHSD did this brilliantly' or 'NHSD was rubbish' but in getting a debate where it belongs - in parliament. The voters can see what service we will be getting from 111. At the moment its a pig in a poke, and I dont want to be assessed by people I dont trust.

One of the main differences I can see in it - the lack of advice available.

So you already took the children to the Dr and got a diagnosis but want some advice from a nurse about, say, how to use the cream, or when to go back if they are not better yet, or what to take to ease the symptoms.

Or you have been referred for tests and want to know more about how long to starve for, or how long to put up with a stomach bug before you need a Dr, or what to do for your back ache.

Lots of people do already know whether or not they need a GP appointment, or A and E, or just for wait for the symptoms to settle. What they look for from the NHSD nurses is some advice and someone qualified to discuss it with.

A and E no longer have to treat and send on/out within 4 hours - how long until the 12 hours waiting on a trolley returns? And if GP appts are kept back for 111 to access, what chance will you have to book one yourself?

Here's an example - both the children have chickenpox. Or hand foot and mouth. They are not seriously ill. But you want advice on what to do with them. You don't usually need to see a GP for chickenpox/hand foot and mouth, so what can the 111 person do?

It has it's faults, and it's limitations. But it does give you the opportunity to chat to a qualified nurse about your query, get the extra advice that GPs just don't have time for.

You have hit the nail on the head next.

Scenario.. mum knows toddler has chicken pox because GP diagnosed. Now child has spots and redness in his eyes. Wait or be seen urgently by out of hours?? I promise you there wont be a script to work that out - they either know the virus can cause corneal scarring (sight damage) or not, and will need anti virals. (My bet is not!)

I have to confess I work for NHSD, but actually dont much like my job! I'm only doing it because I am too decrepid to work in A&E (9 yrs) any longer! I love helping people, I love using skills developed over 20 years in nursing but I hate having to hit targets, even having to explain why I took so long on one call or in the TOILET!!! My stats for wrapping up calls as self care is around 70%, to do that takes skill and knowledge, and at around 28 calls a day I would have heard long before now if my practice was dangerous!

btw. I made an urgent OOH appointment for the Mum, (I never take risks with eyes) and also gave her advice on CP as her GP hadn't told her about piriton syrup, lukewarm baths, and new products much better than rubbishy calomine lotion!

I know you work there How's your AOL? My clinical sorting is beautiful I have namechanged for this thread !

My AOL is around 72%. ! My clinical sorting is also excellent ! But I hate the pettiness of it all. I'm trying to be diplomatic and not get sacked. In its present form NHSD wont be here in two years. 111 is a good idea but they need to incorporate the good part of NHSD not scrap it. If people moan now can you imagine a spotty teenager teling experienced mums what to do!

I personally will have no faith in the service and will tell everyone I know the same. GPs hate it but will find their workload vastly increased, hopefully then they will be earning their vast salaries. Sorry, bit below the belt as all my GPs are fab, but the GMC has been bashing NHSD since the beginning so a few chickens will come home to roost I think

Everyone that I've spoken to in the medical profession hates NHS Direct.

As, on the two occasions I used it, I was told to phone for an abulance (for non serious injuries) I can see why.

Did you speak to a nurse nancy or a call handler? I call very few ambulances, and believe me they are not for minor injuries.

What I want on this thread is a debate on 111 and the need to incorporate the best of NHSD and 111, not personal experiences.

When I worked in A&E I couldn't stand NHSD either, the ambulance crews and doctors the same! But 27,000 call every day so something must be working as they are often repeat callers. I wish fewer people would call, you'd be amazed at how trivial some are and how little common sense people have!

I'm not even defending the service, if people dont like it, dont use it, simple. What I dont want is a cost cutting exercise where everyone loses and and we all end up with a crap service sneaked in the back door and not debated in parliament.

but what is the truth about 111?

I don't understand why you think that call handling is cloak-and-dagger ?

Pedlar Call handlers are not trained medically in any way. The call handlers that 111 will employ will follow more detailed scripts (algorythms) than the current call handlers at NHSD, but the call handlers at NHSD can then transfer you to a nurse (if urgent) or put you in a Q to be dealt with by a nurse according to urgency. The call handlers will not be putting you to speak to a nurse, they will be dealing with the vast majority of the queries themselves. This is obviously quicker but will this be safe do you think? The outcomes (according to trials already done), will send more people to A&E and GPs. Fortunately this will coincide with scrapping the 4 hour wait in A&E, so we can look forward to 6 hour waits (as were common in the past!)

Its not cloak and dagger but the Government are not telling the truth. This is what needs to come out in the open. They say NHSD will be a part of 111. It wont, not unless they put a cheaper bid in, which they cant (if they're to keep nurses), so wont be part of 111. The poor voters will think they will be speaking to nurses still and I think this needs to be exposed.

The tendering process is such that other providors will put in a very cheap bid and outbid NHSD. They can do this because they will only employ a minimum of nurses and mostly unqualified staff. At the moment NHSD have a monopoly so cannot be undercut, but this is going to go as it expertise costs!
btw did you know that NHSD also employs, dental nurses, pharmacists and Health information staff?

The thought of cutting this service is ridiculus, I had to call them the other day for something that could have been quite major but turned out to be minor. Later that day my condition got worse and so I attended A&E as was the advise given. I was fortunate that I was seen by a Dr within 5 mins and tests were carried out.
Sould the service not exist, I could have faced a full A&E dept, not necessarily see the DR within a set time, and should I need a ward bed wait 6 + hours on an uncomefortable trolley.
For me that prospect is not catastrophic, but imagine my 96year old grandmother who has heart problems, this thought is unacceptable.
The government are playing with peoples lives, a company such as Tesco's could put in a bid for the 111 service, so people who sort my shopping could be advising me on the health of my toddler mmmmm, not a good move by the tories- coalition!

Tesco probably will put in a bid. Thats why the debate in parliament needs to take place. How about a call centre in India? They successfully took all the banking call centres away and they do such a wonderful job (just so long as its straightforward)

I know they already own a ward/unit at our local hospital, have no idea how to run it tho xxx
have signed petition and will post link on my fb account.

Its like Balfour-Beatty. They built our local hospital. Looks clean and gorgeous. The hydrotherapy pool is gorgeous but there arent enough changing areas so we're all getting dressed under towels in a tiny space!

oh yes I do that quite regulary at ours, I saw the remnants of the old one yesterday it was quite sad. Looked like the old physio area had been hit by a bomb, should have taken a picture really.
lol ds twiddling fingers!

Signed. NHS direct has been really good for me, especially OOH or if I needed advice and only emergency appointments were available at he GPs.