Well I have been put right off Jen.

[shimmerysilverglitter]

here.

Nice one Jen.

Bet Angelina floating on air.

But seriously how ignorant has she made herself look? Put right off her now. I think you definitely have to think a certain way to use that word as casually as that.

The word is a vile unpleasant offensive word used in the true context of addressing someone who is mentally challenged (realise i too may be using the wrong word,please dont let me offend you)....but in 'teen speak' it seems an acceptable phrase when referring to someone a bit kooky or who behaves in a daft way yet had no 'issues'.

It doesnt detract from the upset the word causes some people,but I dont think said in that capacity it is quite so offensive - I still like her.

She does live in a country where it is used casually as an insult (though I think the tide is turning) and I do suspect that there was no malice intended. I assume she was being self-deprecating.

I of course do not excuse the use of the word but I do think that people are allowed to make unwitting errors.

I hope that the media attention might highlight the offensiveness of the term. My 9yr old niece and her friends used the term frequently and had no idea whatsoever of what it actually meant until I recently challenged them on it.

And please don't buy into all that Jen vs Ange, rubbish. It's not a game.

She's American - it's a much more used word over there and is not used offensively. In diagnosis they talk about retardation and they use the word retarded non-pejoratively in school reports.

Well considering how acceptable it is there seems to have been a massive outcry about it.

Sorry I don't buy it. She shouldn't have said it.

I borrowed a book on child development from MIL recently in order to look up a few things for a friend whose ds is awaiting a statement. It is American and uses the term retardation amongst others that are generally considered thoroughly offensive in this country.

Fair enough it is used in medical terminology as a diagnostic.

Surely that makes it even more offensive that she used it in that context?

She shouldn't have said it, no. But she did and there is some little debate to be had about why she said it. There's nothing to 'buy'. The word is used medically and casually in other countries in a different way to the malicious one you are implying. That doesn't necessarily make it right but the close-mindedness needed to make sweeping generalisations about why somebody might have said something is ironically quite an aping of the mindset you seek to criticise.

Why do you think she said it?

Also can I ask why you think there has been such an outcry about it in her own country if it is as widely acceptable as you say?

I've already stated why I think she said it. I can repeat if you wish, or you can go back and read my replies.

I've also explained that I think the tide is turning against its casual use in America.

Thank you Riven. I was beginning to feel like a lone voice in the dark here.

Nobody's saying it's right or acceptable. Or encouraging its use or defending it.

But if somebody said it without knowing its etymology, its potential for harm etc, then attacking them personally for it or levelling accusations of intent at them is absolutely futile.

Educating and challenging the use of the word is a better use of your time. Hopefully, this media interest will help do this as I said earlier, but levelling anger at one individual who might have made an innocent mistake (not meaning the word is innocent, just their use of it btw) does not serve any purpose at all.

I am not levelling anger at her and I don't think I attacked her personally, but it does make me think differently about her. I just think you have to be thinking a certain way to use that word.

Think Riven has clarified things on this thread really.

I agree with the op

I agree she shouldn't have said it, but unlike other women her age, she's not mixing with mums and children and so on, and probably doesn't know the language; what's changed and what's acceptable.

It doesn't make me think differently about her tbh. I'm sure she just meant it as in goofy or nerdy.

And as for speech of hate' well, I don't think she comes across as a person full of hate! that's really over the top! - hatred for whom?! The goofy nerdy people she's joking about?? lightheartedly, totally unaware of the big fuss she's inadvertently kicked off!

It might sell a few more newspapers I guess.

If you're not making it personal, why bring up Angelina? And you are stating that she was thinking a certain way. She may have said the word, but you are implying that it means something about her personally, as you just said. You've gone off her. You perceive her differently. You assume she thinks a certain way. Well we don't and can't know that unless she expands on the matter. But we do know that the word causes offence. That is where the challenge lies.

I know adults that have used offensive terms without knowing them to be offensive. Kind, intelligent, erudite, compassionate people. People who did not know the offence a certain word caused having only heard it used casually. Is it right to change my entire opinion on that person based on a mistake they made with no malice or forethought? I mean they were put right and had the word explained to them and they have never, ever said the word again and apologised profusely, but should I forever believe them to be irrevocably changed against all other knowledge I have about those people?

Riven has clarified that the word is offensive and should not be used. There isn't a person on this thread that has said otherwise.

Hi Valium. How are you?

Wasn't bringing up Ange in a serious way (er obviously). Just the fact that it is Jen getting bad press for a change. And for the record I didn't "state" anything. I prefaced it with "I think", which means in my opinion.

And I still think it. Possibly you are right that Jen is still a lovely person but I actually have a child with SN so maybe I am just a bit more sensitive about it.

She shouldn't have said it, it's a horrible word.

I'm a teacher and went on a course in Miami, Flrida about 10 years ago (I know - bloody flukey! ). Anyway, the UK teachers were shocked to see the word 'retard' and 'retarded' on all the official statistics about the County. It was all over the literature they gave us. At the time, it was the word used for 'Special Needs'.

The compounded it when discussing the split lunchtimes they had where the 'retards' went into lunch first, and then the 'normal' kids.... This was used to describe those children with physical as well as academic special needs.....

It doesnt have anything to do with the fact that she doesnt mix with Mums - she has has lots and lots of media training!

Its all to do with the fact that making fun of sn is still seen as okay. Look what happened to Isiah Washington or Ron Atkinson. If Jen had siad something racist or homophobic we would not be having this type of 'oh she is a lovely person anyway 'discussion

Florida

Isaiah

One of the Great Speeches. Thanks Riven.