Is there a thread about May scraping the law to help abused women throw out their abusive husbands?

[MmeLindt]

I am insenced to read that a scheme to protect women from abusive partners is to be scrapped.

"Go orders" planned for England and wales would give senior police officers to remove an abusive partner from the family home for two weeks and ban him from being within a certain distance to the house.

This would give the woman time to regroup, and seek help.

marantha do you sincerely believe that anyone who supports one cause automatically hates everyone who is not covered by that cause?

So if someone supports teh NSPCC do you automatically believe that they hate adults and don't care when bad things happen to them?

If someone gives money to a disaster appeal for something that has happened abroad, do you chastise them for hating everyone in this country?

It's a pathetic argument.

And you are honestly comparing eg someone who cares about women and volunteers at a rape crisis centre to members of the Bullingdon club? If you honestly can't see the difference between these two activites then I don't know what to say TBH.

This idea that feminists hate men is bonkers. This idea that feminists must drop what they are doing to help women to go and help men instead, when men are more than capable of helping themselves, given that they hold most of the money and power, is bonkers. I have just read the last few posts out to my DH, who contrary to popular belief I do not keep gagged and locked in a box, and he also thinks that your ideas are quite bonkers.

Since when did supporting one cause mean that you had to support every other cause, or else you hate them? Bonkers.

marantha you seem to be suggesting as well that if women don't do what men want then men won't do anything for women.

Women have been doing what men want for centuries and it hasn't got us very far has it. Now this idea that if anyone points that out, men might get annoyed and be even more horrible.

Not a very nice view of men, that, if you don't mind me saying.

All I was doing is pointing out that to you women come first. Well, to a member of a boys' club, his 'men' come first.

I do give a shit about men.

My father is one. I am married to one. I have a male child.

Of course I care about anything that might affect them.

They were born not just with a penis but also with an advantage over my mother, my sister in law and my daughter.

What is wrong with levelling the playing field a little?

It is not the boys' club member's 'flaming duty to cater for others first, it is to the members of his club that he gives priority.
Others outside the club can- as you put it= do it themselves.

Well, durrrrrrr.

Me making men my priority will not stop men putting members of their boys club first. They won't say "oooh ISNT has decided to join in a march for better facilities for young teens in her area, with an emphasis on young men with nothing to do... Hey guys, let's put rape crisis centres to the top of the funding list!!!"

No it won't. I didn't say it would.

The comparison to a mens club is silly anyway. A mens club is a gathering of men from a similar background with generally similar political leanings.

Women are not in any way a homogenous group. Their political leanings are varied, their backgrounds are from every social class.

you have a terribly low opinion of men marantha, particularly men with power.

The idea that they would never ever care about anybody outside their group is very harsh.

I prefer to think that plenty of people do operate with a certain amount of compassion and decency.

This isn't making any sense, is it?

It makes sense to me, those were some great posts.

But then, I am just a selfish bitch who prefers to campaign for an oppressed group than for a group that has every power structure in the world sewn up.

Imagine if people with brown hair had systematically oppressed people with blonde hair, owned them in law even, and the brunettes owned 99% of the world, ran 95% of the countries in the world, and people with blonde hair were afraid to walk the streets at night for fear of being attacked. When blondes and brunettes intermarry, 2 blondes a week were killed each week by their partner, partly as a result of the underlying hierarchy in society. The judges were nearly all brunette.

If I were blonde, would you seriously expect me to forget campaigning for blonde rights, until I've ensured that each and every brunette is fine?

ISNT I didn't say that they didn't care about anyone else outside their group just that priority was given to those in the group first.

Just like You give priority to women over men.

Which you do.

see above marantha

And btw it's not just because I'm a woman that I am a feminist. I like to think that - like my DP - I would be one even if I was a man.

In the same way that I am not a political prisoner, but I still donate to Amnesty. It's not about trying to get an advantage, it's about not being to stand injustice, and about using my comparative power (to walk the streets, own property, not be married off with 7 children at this age etc) to speak for those who have no voice.

ISNT By definition, your opinion of men is low. You wouldn't be a feminist otherwise.

ooh grown up marantha.

Am i wasting time replying to you when you can only spoon out a ladleful of the old "LOL you hate men!" bile?

Sorry, back there did you just blame feminism/feminists for the existence of the old boys club?

Is that in the same way that Martin Luther King was to blame for slavery?

Do you enjoy what equality you have, marantha? I mean, do you like being able to own your own property, being able to vote, being able to go to the police if your husband beats you?

Or would you rather that you and your daughter/sister/niece were legally counted as property rather than people, were unable to stand for public office, were able to be raped within marriage, could be executed for adultery?

ElephantsAndMiasmas Your reply is typical of that of a bullying feminist.

You seem not to grasp the idea that there MUST be something about the patriarchal (obviously MALE) system that you dislike.
Therefore, you dislike the way MEN behave, maybe not ALL men, but certainly SOME men.

No I did NOT say that I blamed feminism for the old boys' club- I really don't know where you got that from.

I repeat: I was just pointing out that as boys' club put its members first, so feminism puts WOMEN first.
I thought that this would be a simple statement worthy of agreement not something that would set you off on a rant!

If you were OK with the patriarchal system and liked all men, you wouldn't be a feminist.
(Again, something which I thought to be obvious).

I am not a bully, I don't know what you mean by that.

Of course I dislike the way some men behave, don't you? Men who hurt and rape and kill and abuse men, women, children, animals? That does not = hating men, that's absurd.

Hating misogyny is not the same as hating men. Not all men are misogynists. Hating racism isn't the same as hating white people, is it?

I put the needs of an oppressed group above those of a dominant group, despite everyone (you've got some powerful friends) from magazines to the justice system telling me that men are more important.

I'm sorry for calling you a bully.

And, yes, of course the way some men behave is atrocious.

But I don't understand how you cannot feel a certain amount of hatred for men who do appalling things to women.

Or is it possible that you can hate the ACTIONS of men who abuse women but not the man as a person? I got to be honest, I can't make this distinction.

Maybe we can agree that SOME men are worthy of hatred but not ALL?

That seems fair comment.

Thanks.

TBH I don't like to say "I hate" anyone in a serious sense, few people are truly irredeemable, we are all human etc. But I really do hate discriminatory beliefs - racism, sexism, homophobia. They are IMO poisonous nonsense that has caused the misery, suffering and deaths of millions of people.

Racism and homophobia, although still a massive problem, at least in this country are unacceptable views to make public. If you substituted some of the jokes and comments made about women on TV or in the papers, with the same comments about e.g. Jews, everyone would rightly come down on you like a ton of bricks. For some reason this hasn't happened with sexism yet.

And women are still the underclass in pretty much every country in the world. You must know this really? Is there something wrong with struggling for the rights of oppressed people?

Do you think women in Afghanistan are oppressed for example? Do you think anyone is doing anything about this, except feminists?

Feminism is not a cult or an organisation, it's a heartfelt attempt to lift all women out of the pain, suffering and poverty inflicted on them just because of their sex.

Well, I don't think it is only feminists who are doing anything about it.

Some of the things happening to women in Afghanistan would cause disgust in most men, I think. They've got wives and daugthers, too.

I appreciate the good intentions behind feminism.

I suppose the point I was trying to make here is that I don't see how a feminist can hold ALL men in high regard given that most of the oppression is caused by men.

I don't get it though, marantha, if I admit that not all feminists like all men, does that prove your point that feminists hate men?

Why would all of one group like all of any other group? the thing about feminism is, it's not about men. It's about women and working out how to improve things for them.

BTW if you think that a lot of oppression is caused by misogyny and male violence, and you're not happy about that...

...you might actually be a feminist.

It's ok, you don't have to shave your head and renounce sleeping with men. Not at first anyway