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Rape or misrepresentation?

23 replies

lionheart · 21/07/2010 21:10

Link www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

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TheButterflyEffect · 21/07/2010 21:19

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lionheart · 21/07/2010 21:27

I think I can remember a different sort of case a few years ago, about a girl who passed as a boy. She has a sexual relationship with another girl (they were both teenagers) and was charged with sexual assault when the other girl eventually discovered the truth. I could not quite figure out how the charge came to be brought.

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TheButterflyEffect · 21/07/2010 21:33

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lionheart · 21/07/2010 21:35

No, this one was in the u.k.

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BeenBeta · 21/07/2010 21:35

I wonder what would have happened if the matter had been the other way round - a Jewish man and an Arab women?

On the other hand, I think there used to be law in the UK (maybe still is) that men could be prosecuted under if they promised marriage to a woman to encourage her to have sex and then backed out of the promise of marriage after sex had taken place. Similar to this case, obtaining sex by deception.

TheButterflyEffect · 21/07/2010 21:40

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TheButterflyEffect · 21/07/2010 21:41

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StewieGriffinsMom · 21/07/2010 21:42

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GiddyPickle · 21/07/2010 22:46

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prism · 22/07/2010 00:34

I think it's absolutely ridiculous. The fact is, you don't know everything about someone when you enter into a sexual relationship, and the reason it comes to an end might well be something they lied about (not being rich, not being the right race, not having a job, not being a nice person after all, being married to someone else...).

It's not very nice to find yourself in that position but to claim you're the victim of rape is rather demeaning to victims of forced sexual intercourse.

IMHO

scanty · 22/07/2010 00:49

don't know what to say - truly bizarre story. So, she is so outraged at being tricked into having sex with an Arab rather than thinking that perhaps she should have waited a bit longer to get to know him before taking her knickes off at the first possible moment. No problem with casual sex, but if you don't like the outcome (not talking about real rape) then grow a little wiser for future encounters.

Quality · 22/07/2010 08:43

agree with scanty/prism etc, if she wasn't 100% what religion he was and it mattered that much then she shouldn't have had sex with him.

Is a bit dismissive of real rape victoms imo

ReshapeWhileDamp · 22/07/2010 08:56

Sorry Stewie, I don't agree that dishonesty is 'sexual violence'. This was consensual sex between two adults. According to news reports across the board, it took place mere minutes after the two people met on the street. I think for the woman to claim she was looking for a 'serious romantic relationship' is disingenuous, and for him (married, two young children) to be on the pick-up and pretend to be something he wasn't (maybe - the defence claims he never claimed to be anything he wasn't, and the 'misunderstanding' came about because of his nickname. Who knows?) is sleazy, to say the least. Neither of them come out well.

But to cry rape? It's unbelieveable. This case would have been thrown out of a UK court. It's also offensive to women and men who have been genuinely raped. The additional element of blatant racism makes the case even more repugnant, and is what's getting the attention*, but to be honest, it's bad enough that someone can be convicted and jailed on rape charges (rather than, say, fraud, for which there is a precedent) merely for giving the impression they were more serious about a relationship than they were. Both adults, both capable of making adult choices. I mean, this sort of scenario is hardly unusual, is it?

  • and to quote the judge on the case, this is what she said on summing up: "If she had not thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious relationship, she would not have co-operated.

"The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price - the sanctity of their bodies and souls."

'Co-operated' - is that an appropriate way of describing sex between adults? Nice. Pretty paternalistic towards the role of the woman in sex (the judge, btw, is a woman herself.). Am torn between wailing and laughing at the rest of the language the judge uses - 'innocent victims', 'sanctity of bodies and souls'. FFS.

scanty · 22/07/2010 14:28

If it happened in the UK, I wouldn't have been surprised at the women being charged with some sort of racism. If she had been some very religious virgin who dated the guy with the intention of marriage in the long run, then I might have thought differently. Would be interesting to know her background, if she is orthodox/relgious etc. Most secular Israeli (more jewish by birth only) girls I have met have been very upfront and relaxed about sex.

Mingg · 22/07/2010 15:42

One night stand so surely reasonably upfront and relaxed about sex?

SolidGoldBrass · 22/07/2010 15:45

It's ridiculous to call this rape.

Butterbur · 22/07/2010 16:34

"If she had not thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious relationship, she would not have co-operated.

Because having sex with someone minutes after you first meet is such a good way of beginning a serious relationship.

donnie · 23/07/2010 13:20

she willingly had sex with him,she wanted to have sex with him. She then cried rape because she found out he wasn't a Jew. And the guy was convicted. Fucking bloody hell.If he HAD been Jewish it would have been ok. But he's an Arab /of Arab parentage, so he's a rapist.

Christ Almighty.

MsFaithless · 23/07/2010 21:36

IMHO 'Rape by deception' makes a mockery of rape/abuse as a heinous crime.

Ok, these 2 people met up briefly and had consensual sex a short time after. He told her his name which could have been an Arab or a Jewish name and she assumed he was a Jew.

He did not explicitly say he was not.

She found out afterwards and claimed rape.

Just to be clear, he never said he was a Jew.

He did say he was available for a romantic relationship despite being married with kids so the guy was a lying arsehole but by that rationale hundreds upon thousands of men could be imprisoned for rape.

He's already been under house arrest for 2 years.

In a nutshell, she's a rabid racist and the Israel/Palesitine situation continues to be a complete fucking mess. This is not rape.

MsFaithless · 23/07/2010 21:40

^^Sorry 'hundreds of thousands of men and women.' Plenty of people lie/neglect to tell the truth in order to get laid. Don't want to malign men without adding that caveat.

Not guilty myself, I promise...

wb · 24/07/2010 11:50

If misrepresenting yourself or your intentions in order to get laid is rape then the world needs a lot more prisons-for both sexes.

TheShriekingHarpy · 26/07/2010 20:36

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TheFallenMadonna · 26/07/2010 20:44

If she had misrepresented herself to him, would she have been the rapist?

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