Cleaning lady payment on bank holidays

[Feebo]

Hi,
Looking for some advice.
My cleaning lady who has worked with us for 5 years and does ten hours a week (over 3 days) has just informed me that it's her legal requirement to be paid for bank holidays (she does 4 hours on Mondays) even if she chooses not to come to work.
If I do want her to come - which she has never offered, then she is entitled to double.
Given she is part time. I don't think this seems true but could I please get some advice from other people on what they do for bank holidays.

Note: when we are away we ask her to come and spring clean so always pay her if our holidays impact her days.

How did you engage her and pay her - is she self-employed? If so, there is no entitlement to holiday pay or other benefits. If she's technically employed by you then yes she would be due some holiday entitlement which wouldn't be as straightforward as being paid for all bank holidays.

I'm not an employment specialist by an means. But being part time has no bearing on whether she is entitled to bank holiday pay. Surely it would be whether she is employed or self employed.

If employed then she is entitled to holiday pay which would include a pro rata proportion for bank holidays. If she's self employed she's not entitled to holiday pay but could set her rates higher to make up for no holiday pay.

Is she a direct employee? If so she’s entitled to holiday pay. At ten hours a week that’s 56 hours holiday pay per year. Not double pay on bank holidays. If she’s self employed she can set out her terms, such as double pay for bank holidays etc. You don’t have to agree to her terms but she doesn’t have to work for you and if you can’t agree then you should terminate the relationship.

Are you her "employer" (and responsible for reporting her income for tax, employer's NI contributions, give her paid holiday entitlement, statutory sick pay, pension) - which would be unusual - or is she self-employed and responsible for her own tax and NI?

If she is your employee then she's entitled to pro-rata holiday in lieu of bank holidays (but not every bank holiday that falls on a Monday as 4 hours out of a 10 hour week isn't proportionate).

More likely she is self-employed and should factor in holiday pay etc into her hourly rate. Or is she paid cash in hand and not registered with HMRC?

No she isn't entitled to double pay for a bank holiday unless that's something you have agreed to give her in her contract with you. Is she self employed or are you her employer?

And if she's self employed I wouldn't be paying her for a day she isn't cleaning for you. She could always clean on an alternative day in a monday bank holiday week.

Is she self employed?

Do you have a written contract with her that sets out her T&Cs?

Nobody is entitled to be paid for bank holidays.

employed people are entitled to 28 days paid holiday per year (which is pro rata for part timers) whether that includes bank holidays or not depends on the individual employment contract.

self employed people which presumably your cleaner is, are not entitled to any paid holiday time unless you have signed a context specifically stating it (or not xigned it but allowed work to commence anyway after having bring given it.

self employed people like my husband & your cleaner are supposed to incorporate holiday pay into their hourly rate.

Thanks for the advice. She is self employed. No contract.
So it looks like she has no entitlement to bank holiday pay unless she works that day

Are you sure she is self employed if she works for you 3 days a week?

Where else does she work? Does she bring her own products? Does she sort out her own tax?

You might want to have a quick google of ways to decide if self/employed as if she is employed you have a lot of additional responsibilities.

As others have said, there's no entitlement to paid holidays if she's self employed. If she was your employee, she'd be entitled to the statutory 5.6 weeks holiday. But bank holidays aren't a legal entitlement for anyone, unless by contractual arrangement.

I tend to pay my cleaner some holiday weeks, because it feels like the right thing to do for me, that's a choice, not a legal obligation.

We don't have a contract with her and she works for 4 other people too

If you have a regular pattern of paying her at a particular rate, you probably do have a contract albeit verbally. That, however, is separate to the issue of the bank holiday pay which I can't see she would be entitled to especially as she's self-employed.

It doesn't matter if you have a contract or not.

It's good if she works for lots of other people though. There are other tests as well like can she change her days, send someone in her place, does she use her own equipment, is she actually declaring her tax because someone should be!

She seems to think she is employed not self-employed so that's not great. I'd take a look through a few online sites to work out how to be more clear that she definitely isn't an employee

I have to be honest, everyone I know who employs someone for 3 days a week is actually their employer eg housekeeper/cleaner types or nannies. They have to pay their taxes, ni, pension and holidays. One day a week is pretty normal for a self employed cleaner.

I'm not so sure she is self employed.

Ok interesting never thought of her as an employee but I better look into it Thank you x

I'd be looking for a new cleaner.

Do you pay in cash or by bank transfer? Has she ever mentioned paying her own tax etc.? Did she tell you she was self-employed? Does she have other clients? It is a bit concerning that she seems to think she is an employee so it's worth clarifying that situation.

I'd be tempted to sit down and have a chat with her - explain that you've always understood her to be self-employed, which means no entitlement to bank hols. Self employed people normally set their rates to account for the fact they don't get holidays, pension etc. Explain that if she sees herself as an employee, then you'd need to look at a PAYE relationship and deduct tax and NI at source. Or if she is self employed discuss renegotiating her terms - if you rate her work perhaps time for a rate increase?

If she's self employed no, she doesn't. If she's employed as a worker she would only be entitled to pro rata bank holidays eg if she works 10 hours a week, she would be paid 2 hours for the bank holiday as that proportional

How do you pay her? Do you pay tax, NI, sickness?
I think she is in the grey area of employed/self employed

If she’s a good cleaner and you trust her I would just pay her - whether it’s the law or not. I have an amazing cleaner who comes on Wednesday so it’s not an issue. Before her I had a cleaner who somehow destroyed a sink in a one year old kitchen by using bleach and if my current cleaner asked for bank holiday pay I’d do it.

If it's unclear whether OPs cleaner is self employed or not this probably isn't a good idea legally, it blurs the lines even more.

That’s a good point eliflurtle, I hadn’t thought of that. I still think a good cleaner is worth their weight in gold but wouldn’t want to do the wrong thing.

Your cleaner doesn't understand employment law.

Who advertised?

Did you advertise for a cleaner stating the hours of work and the pay? Did you draw up a contract of employment stating terms and get her to sign it? If you did, it's possible you're her employer. This means she'd have employment rights.

If she advertised for clients, decided her charges and when she's free to work, it's probable she's self employed. Especially if she has other clients and a company name. This means she has no employment rights other than those stated in her contract, which ideally she should have provided you with and got you to sign, although a contract can be verbal.

If she's self employed she's not entitled to holiday pay at all. If she takes time off for any reason, it's unpaid. She can decide when she works, for how long and whether to take a day off. If you decide to stop using her she's not entitled to notice period (unless you have a contract with her saying you would) or redundancy pay. She's not redundant if she's not an employee.

If she's your employee, she's entitled to holiday pay pro rata.

I don't know exactly how it's worked out, but if legally holiday pay is eg 20 days a year for full time (figure plucked from the air!) that doesn't mean she gets 20 Mondays off, because she's not full time, it doesn't mean she gets 20 shifts off either.

I've had a part time job working 4hrs a day, 5 days a week. Full time workers got I think 28 days holiday and I got an amount in hours that worked out to something like 15 shifts off. It's a complicated system.

Even if she's an employee, there's no legal entitlement to have particular days off, not even Christmas day and definitely not bank holidays. The employer decides what days the employee can take. Some companies the employee can request certain days, other companies the employer decides it all. I've known companies allocate each worker 2 weeks over the summer and they have no say in which weeks it is. Other companies close for 2 weeks over Christmas and New year and all employees need to save some of their holiday allowance for this.

Obviously if she only works Mondays, then all her holiday days will be Mondays.

There's no legal entitlement to be paid double for working bank holidays or any other holidays. That is a perk of the job offered by some employers to attract good employees. Just like they might choose to pay more than minimum wage, or offer a company car along with the job, or private health insurance etc

I've worked in shops and if you usually work Monday then you worked it same as normal whether it was bank holiday or not and there was no extra pay. That's the norm in a lot of industries.