Hoard depriving mum of grandchild... Help!

[Crossfitgirl]

Hi all, my mum is a very bad hoarder, to the point her house is dangerous. The rooms are so full of stuff (old clothes, furniture, boxes, magazines, ornaments etc) that none of the rooms are functional. The kitchen is full out out of date food, the carpets are threadbare, mouldy food gets left out for days, the house smells, it's in a state of disrepair. My poor FIL has tried to decorate but gets it in the ear if he throws anything out, so gives up.
The walls are half stripped and have been like that for years as she can't decide what wallpaper to buy. The cooker needs condemning but she won't buy a new one as "there's no point, as she is going to get an extension and new kitchen so a new one is a waste now"...

I once spent days off work helping her declutter the dining room, we went through everything, took to charity and sold on ebay with mum fully involved, and cleared it so you could sit and eat at the table. Months later, it was back to un-enterable.

I've stopped going round as I can't deal with it.

It's not like she doesn't know its an issue, have had many talks about it, she had cancer a few years back and even said she wanted to focus on the house to help get her through, but it never happened. Whenever I bring it up now she bats it off "yes, yes, I know I know."

The problem is, I'm now pregnant with my first. DH and I have agreed we wouldn't want our child there as its not safe nor clean. This saddens me as I'd like to think my parents can have their grandchild round. They can come to ours, no problem, but still.

Has anyone got any advice? Anyone had a successful declutter? Anyone know if psychological help can help and where to get it if she's willing?

Help 😭

*not FIL... my dad! Too much mumsnet and acronyms lol

Hoarding is an actual MH issue.

I don’t think you can do anything unless your DF is prepared to lead, as it is his home, his wife.

Hoarding is a mental health problem. Would your mum agree to seek help? Perhaps now with a GC on the way, you and your dad could encourage this?

Sorry - I missed that you’re looking for psychological support for her.

Hoarding is a mental health issue. Often anxiety-based, caused by some kind of traumatic loss in the past.
Do some research on what kind of psychological support might be available to her- and then persuade and help her to seek that support.
No point trying to declutter if she's not addressed the issue that causes the hoarding.
Don't try and use your future child to pressurise her. It doesn't help anyone.

Definitely encourage her to seek help from a GP as it is a mental health issue but also you may have to accept that she does not want help for now. Your Dad should also find ways of coping, whether that is from the GP or a mental health charity. You should talk to them both and be very clear that the hoarding will not stop them seeing their grandchild but that it will be at your house or an outing. That way everyone knows what to expect.

With hoarding, what happens if somebody just clears the house while the person is out? How do they react and does it make things worse?

I don't have an issue with hoarding but my df and his partner live in extremely poor conditions and the house is caked with cigarette smoke and everything is dirty and covered in nicotine.

I refuse to take my kids round there and it hurts my dad, especially as his partner's grandkids come round all the time.

The thing is, whatever the situation, it's up to us as parents to look after our kids and as you've stated it isn't safe. You need to explain calmly that you don't feel comfortable bringing your baby to be there and you want them to have a relationship but put your foot down.

You'll feel awful but you would feel much worse if there was an avoidable accident or the baby got ill from the environment itself.

Can she meet you in a neutral place? My dad is housebound so it's not feasible in my situation and I'll go round by myself but I'm their mum and it's my responsibility to protect my kids. Even if it feels shit.

@kenndodd we tried that in the past, got rid of all the out of date food in the kitchen and threw a load of stuff away, made the counter tops presentable. Mum was livid when she came back and emptied all the bin bags (we'd not tipped them, just put them in the big bin...) out onto the drive to check we hadn't thrown away something useful.

It absolutely won't stop them seeing their grandchild, but it'll just have to be at our housenot theirs. We have a spare room if they want to stay over, which we factored in when we moved here when thinking of starting a family.

It's just not safe for a baby, I'd go there with the baby but they wouldn't come out of my arms or their pram. Not long since, a block of pebble dash crumbled from the outside of the house and landed on the car, smashing the windscreen. Even despite me saying next time it could be their head it smashes in, they haven't done anything about it.

I've never suggested psychological help before, only help to de clutter as she seems willing to try get rid of things, but has no motivation to do it and just doesn't do it. She is semi retired but ALWAYS busy, going out, at the gym, having coffee, or going away on holidays or weekends away. She just avoids it. It's not like she doesn't have time, which is always her excuse.

My dad has tried over the years to change things but usually by tipping stuff, clearing out without her, and this has generally made things far worse and made his life a misery as she never let's him hear the end of it, so he has just resolved to live with it.

I did wonder if a gentle conversation about how it'd be nice for her to have the baby over at hers if the house was better, but I don't want her to feel like I'm pressuring her over the grandchild as not only is that awful but it just wouldn't work. She would just be the victim and I'd be the horrible daughter making it harder for her to see her grandchild.

I'm not sure she'd see her GP as I genuinely don't think she thinks she has a MH issue. I'd also worry about whether the GP would be helpful or not, as you know some can just be dismissive or not know what services can actually help. Maybe I should offer to go with her?

Has anyone had experience of seeing a GP for this type of thing?

There's some helpful info on the Mind website and maybe have a look at this:
www.helpforhoarders.co.uk/

The local fire service could do a home safety check. Maybe spelling out the risks of if a fire broke out may help her take the situation more seriously.
My ex fil visits homes and does just this, they fit smoke alarms etc.

Decluttering won't solve the problem because it will just happen again and again. You need to get to the bottom of WHY your DM hoards stuff. As PP have said, it's a MH problem and your DM needs to admit she has a problem and seek help. I don't think you can force her. Maybe once the baby arrives and she can't have her DGC in the house it will be the push she needs to get help. If the house is as bad as you describe, then I'd seriously reconsider even taking baby round in your arms/the pram and just have your DPs visit your DC in your own house. Again, if you say the house isn't suitable/unsafe, it could drive your DM into seeking help.

Is she always out buying new stuff? Where does it come from?

The hoarders I hear about, can't stop rescuing stuff from bins or buying new stuff.

I would not pressure her, but I would be calmly matter of fact direct.

Invite them to your so see the baby but say “your house is not a suitable / healthy / safe environment for a baby but you can come here as often as you like”

If they demur say “I’m not criticising, it’s your home and your business. But the piles of stuff could fall / it’s obviously hard to clean round your possessions. It’s up to you but if we look at it honestly it isn’t how most people choose to enjoy their homes. You may find it hard to work out how to deal with this. As keeping all your stuff is often caused by trauma it would be reasonable to talk to your GP about getting help “.

Don't actually know where it all comes from! She seems to get new things and just never gets rid of any old stuff, ever.

Thanks for those websites have had a quick look and there is some stuff on there that's useful, specially an icebreaker form to give the GP. May try that.

Yes we will just have to have them come to ours, it won't motivate her though, she has 5 other grandchildren to my brother, they used to come to the house but since the hoarding got worse they now don't, my SIL won't allow it. not sure if they've told my mum the reason but they live quite far away and mum sees them at their own home as it's easier for my brother with there being so many of them!

Can I ask how old your Mum is?

I think you might hold the Ace here with the baby on the way , surely if anything will make her see the issue it would be that?

My DMum is 82 and has always been untidy, our whole house was untidy when I was growing up. Mainly because she'd start doing one thing , get fed up and leave it (like upending a drawer or emptying a cupboard)

Now I really worry about her safety and mobility , though she cannot get out easily so thankfully less 'stuff' coming into the house . There seems to be a never ending source of clutter from cupboards and boxes.

She won't throw food out ( I blame all of it on her being a child in war time and she speaks with very fond memories of life with her Mum and Brother when they were evacuated . Her Mum could make nice things , like clothes, from scraps of fabric, and meals from little)

Throwing things out behind their back is NOT an option. They will blame you.

Sometimes my Mum will have 3-4 of the same thing (like a potato peeler or a plastic bowl) she only needs one. I get her to choose one then recyle/bin the others.

She wants to keep something because " Mary gave me that" . Will Mary come round your house and ask you "Where's that vase I bought you?" . No.

I am going to their house soon. My mission is to get rid of her knitting machines (2) and sewing machines (2+ a portable one) .
They are in her bedroom (which is dangerously cluttered)

She has loads of half sewn material (I got rid of loads before but she had to keep some which she said she;d sew- she hasn't. )
She keeps saying "I'm going to sew that , it's a coat "
She cannot even hold a knife and fork let alone sew.
She had dozens of sewing and knitting patterns ( circa 1970)

My biggest sucess tip was : once something is empty - box , basket, plastic tub. Get rid of the container . Otherwise she fills it up with rubbish again.
I have to literally crush or break them .

And decide where something will go, otherwise "I'm keeping that" means it gets shoved in the drawer again.

Good Luck.
(Actually my Mum was a bit tidier when I had DS so you might find it gives you leverage )
But she used to get this urge to collect things, not even nice things . And completely indiscriminate .
(Teapots, books,cruet sets, plants , clocks......the clocks were over 240 !)

It wasn't Oh I found a book I was looking for , I'm going to enjoy reading . It was more "I was in the charity shop and I bought a book (or 5) ".
The clocks were the worst though. None told the right time , few had batteries , the ones which did work were unbearably noisy and most were Plug Ugly .

You have my sympathy OP. My DM is exactly the same and I cannot bear to go to her house anymore. Over the years, I've tried to tidy and get rid of stuff, and it's been ok for a week or so, but is soon back to same tip. My DM does have MH issues so I'm sure the hoarding is all linked. I don't really know how to tackle it tbh.

My DM needs to move as she's now 77 and needs a house more suited to her mobility. In order to sell, DB and I need to sort her hoard out, but the thought of doing it, and her not giving anything up, is not something I want to do.

Nothing ever helped my father was on all sorts of meds ,even social services gave up on him.

At least he was clean though although he had so much stuff you had to climb over it at least he cleaned .

I just never had my daughter round had him come out to see us i accepted this was a unfortunate part of my father.He lost our mother and then he lost the plot.Some people just dont recover no matter how many pills or therapy you throw at them.

Its not that i didn't care its just we tried but over time we had to accept it

Ugh, the hoarders in my family make me so sad. They are like addicts. I won't try to give you tips on how to get her to stop hoarding. She has a serious MH condition.

What I will say is that your sadness about not visiting is all about you not her. For those of us with mothers with severe MH issues having our first child can bring a lot of shit to the surface. It can make you irrationally believe that she'll magically transform because of the grandchild. The sad fact is that won't happen. You want it badly. She doesn't. Her own children weren't reason enough. You have to come to terms with it or you'll go crazy.

She's 68, and fairly active does yoga, pilates etc and walking holidays so she's physically able to do things.
Thanks for the getting rid of containers idea! That's brilliant!

I'm under no illusion she will be any different with DGC on the way, it'd just be nice to maybe see this as a bit of a catalyst to try and get the ball rolling with help.

The idea of having to clear that house out in the event of a move, or in the future when my parents are gone, is just impossible.

It really makes me wonder what went wrong. She's not really had any great tragedy in her life, and the hoarding started well before she lost her own parents. I did wonder if it was empty nest syndrome as I don't remember the house being bad when we were little (I am the youngest of 3) in fact we used to sit at the table and have Christmas parties at Christmas etc.

But it did start while I was still living there as a teenager /young adult, many an argument we had over it. Wonder if it was empty nest syndrome?

Empty Nest might be a factor.

My DMum has said to me that when the DC 9 my DSis/DBro and I ) left home , we go back from time to time , but if she throws things out it's gone for good.
I don't think she keeps things for that reason, she's never been tidy even when we were younger.
She always said she wanted "A tidy house" if we asked her what she wanted for birthday or Mothers Day.
But she didn't want to tidy , or for us to throw anything away , or to only tidy if we wanted people round.
So basically she wanted us to tidy up, keep it tidy but not to involve her stuff. If we tidied , it never stayed tidy .

Now I'm older , (I;m 52) I am more determined . Her safety is the main issue not being surrounded by stuff.
I do tell her she'll need to leave me enough money in her Will for at least 3 skips !

She used to vacuum the living room when Saturday Swap Shop was on. Sp she had all week to vacuum when we were at school, but waited till there was something on TV that we wanted to see. I asked her recently , she said "Oh I couldn't vacuum in the day time , your Dad worked nights"

Erm, he did varied shifts , nights were only every 3 weeks . And he was home after we left for school .
But she didn't get up till after 10am

he DC (my DSis/DBro and I )
She didn't have 9 DC !

Sounds exactly like my mum! She vacs at bloody midnight and gets up late and only ever cleans when there's other shit to do instead! Lol.
We would need about 10 skips 😩

I am going to DParents in a couple of weeks.
I usually start with 3 bags :
Recycle:paper/cardboard/plastic. I bought them some multiblade scissors so I get Dad to chop up identity labels.
Charity Shop
Bin

DDad though is a phenomenal enabler , he takes something out of the bin and says "She's throwing this out"
Mum says "I know"

I tell him he's being the opposite of help and make me coffee .

I'm taking loads of big carry bags (Ikea type) to cart off to the Charity shops.

I'm going to hire a ar so I can put it out of sight and lock it away , then off to the dump/charity shop.

I had a bag of fabric, my DMum wanted to rake through for some material she thought I'd taken (I hadn't) so I had to move it or she'd have emptied it

She kept asking me if I'd thrown out a green skirt (I hadn't) so I might find that next time .
And I left about 6 things she was meant to sew (she won't have)

I found loads of things ( 6 pairs trousers, identical) and a jumper (my SIL) that she'd taken apart to fix but they never got sewed. So she had bits of fabric that were useless.
If one pair doesn't fit you , why take the waistband off 6 pairs ?