curtains - please help!

[dementedma]

I hate curtains and all their kin with a passion. Rods and rails and hooks and clips and widths and lengths and gathers and.....breathe, dammit, breathe
Ok, we finally have a bit of money and neeed new curtains. All the ones we have are second hand and don't meet in the middle and sag and everything.
In the sitting room I have a bay window with a plastic rail which runs right round. The windows go right up to the ceiling so the rail is suspende from clippy things in the ceiling. Where they have come loose, it sags and looks awful. I can't face taking it off and trying to work out how to fit a new one. I like the ones with poles which just slide through the holes in the curtains, but can't do those because there isn't a gap between curtains and ceiling. is this making sense?

I don't know what to get, what size, or how to fit them! don't want to spend a fortune either. Sitting room is cream with coral/reddish feature wall, cream sofas. red rug on wooden floors. can anyone help?

What type of bay is it? Would blinds work?

i didn't know there were different types of bay!
erm, it comes down to about waist height, with shelves underneath.
Smaller windows at the side and a bigger window in the middle.
It's a cold room, so needs curtains for warmth and cosiness factor

You can have a full semi circle type bay or one that is more like two smaller diagonal side windows with one normal window in the middle of them. Yours sounds like a proper semi circle (correct me if I'm wrong). I work in a curtains and bedding store as an assistant manager btw. Due to the fact that your window meets the ceiling with no gap you won't be able to use a pole because the brackets will not hold it in place on the ceiling for you, it would fall out regularly even if you managed to make it balance in the bracket. So your current situation of a flexible plastic track (rail) is the best you can hope for. You say parts of it are sagging etc is the track really old and therefore the plastic is buckling or is it just not put up right? Either way you are definitely going to have to either remove it and put it up properly to avoid the sagging or replace it with a new strong one. Tracks are relatively cheap compared to poles, I think our most expensive in my shop is about £12.99 compared to an extendable bay window pole (if you could use one that is) is around £50. Anyhow that's the track bit now on to the curtains, you will need to measure from one side of the semi circle all the way around the inside to the other end of the semi circle (especially if you want the curtains to meet) and then for the drop if you have storage underneath you don't want the curtain to cover those presumably so measure from the ceiling to the start of the storage. If I've missed anything feel free to ask!

ooh, thank you masters
so if i measure from one side to the other is that how wide the curtains have to be or do I have o add extra so that they have folds/pleats?
sorry to be so thick, I just don't understand! i have a degree in French but don't understand curtains!!!

Replace the pole or your lovely new curtains will still look rubbish. Something like this would work and then you can have curtains on hooks or the type of curtains you wanted

The width of your curtains wants to be at least twice the width of your window and probably a little bit more. Measure the existing pile from one end to the other, double it and add a bit. That’s how much curtain width you need

Sorry I have no idea what pp is talking about, the width of your window is the width of curtain in store you will choose (not double, and not double plus a little extra) unless you want EXTREMELY full curtains with loads of pleats otherwise totally unnecessary. For an example (unless made to measure which is expensive) majority of curtains come in the following sizes in inches 46x54, 66x54, 66x72, 66x90, 90x90, 102x72, 102x90 and 108x90. So for example if your window measured at 86x72 you would go for a 90x72 there it will be 4 inches wider than your window and will slightly overlap when closed/meeting and whilst pulled open would give you around 6 pleats on either side. I hope that helps xx

Haha forgot to include the 90x72 in my list of curtain sizes, don't tell my manager 😂

Ps if it were a standard window or you were able to use a pole of which the ends (finials) would extend past the edge of your window over a wall then yes you would add width on for those curtains (usually 6 inches each side.... Not double...) however for your shape of window and using a track the exact width of the window is standard practice.

Honestly, I would ask around and see if you can get a recommendation for a curtain maker before you go ahead and buy readymade. Even if you just get them round for a chat and a quote, often they aren't much more expensive and you should end up with a far better result. If they are way off the mark you may have gleaned some helpful information in the process.

oh god. see. this is what I mean
One person says double the width, one person says not double the width.
what do all those measurements signify? Width and length?

You absolutely don't want curtains that are the same width as you window. If your window was 86 inches wide and you bought 90 inch wide curtains as a pp suggested, they would look horrendous. Firstly they probably wouldn't meet ( you'd have 4 inches spare and no curtains would be flat enough to be the exact measurement and even if they were flat, they'd look like a flat piece of fabric ) and well, that's not a good look. You always buy 1.5 width or 2x width.

What about Roman blinds (with thermal lining if you needed it for warmth?)

so, 1.5 times the width? Not double, and not the width? do you see why I want to cry????
Googled Roman blinds but think it has to be curtains. its an old victorian flat with high ceilings and cornices etc and I think needs warm curtains for the cosy look.
thank s all for your help - am just as confused but do appreciate you taking the time to answer

If the window is 86 inches wide and she purchased a 90 width which is 4 inches larger than the window then they most certainly would meet and overlap by 4 inches, it is impossible for them not to meet in that scenario as you suggest!! Yes they would pull flat but on a bay window that is perfectly acceptable and as I said in previous post unless op wants extremely full curtains with loads of pleats (which she may well want/choose) but it is wholly unnecessary. And sitting open they would present with an average of 6 pleats each side of the window. It's completely down to personal preference if you want your PULLED curtains to have perfect pleats all the way across, a few soft ruffles or just simply closed flat but I'm telling the op the basics as she seemed confused and didn't want to spend a lot of money, there is completely no reason for her to buy double the width of her window and waste her money.

This was just randomly screenshot from first website I clicked after typing into Google how to measure for curtains. Someone please see the sense that curtains come in pairs so if your window is 86 and you buy 90x72, EACH curtain is 90 so in terms of material you are getting 180 inches of material width which is twice the size of the window and will fit perfectly. I've worked with curtains for years. You don't double the measurement, you just buy a pair of curtains. Pp your logic would make sense if someone bought one curtain only which was the exact width of their window yes the material would be entirely flat if possible at all, but the same does not apply with a PAIR of curtains.

Curtains should always be at least double fullness but the example given isn't right. If your window is 86" wide and you bought 90" wide curtains they wouldn't be flat with a 4" overlap. Each curtain is 90" wide so in total 180" wide in a pair. So a pair of 90" wide curtains is double fullness for a 86" wide window and you would have gather when closed. I make soft furnishings for a living.

Op can you post a photo of your curtains / bay? Ideally both open and closed.

It may just be a matter that some of the fittings on the existing rail have come loose and can easily be fixed, addressing the sagging rail. Also, depending on the width of the existing curtains, perhaps all they need is the cords loosened.

That's if you are happy with the curtains and can afford to replace.

Nikry that's exactly what I'm saying! When I said 4 inches spare I meant on each curtain. Others telling op to double her measurements and purchase "that size" are incorrect, you buy the curtains that are the same size as the width of your window like I originally said, of course this will give double fullness as curtains come in pairs, I thought that was common sense but clearly not to pp!

Curtains ARE confusing. I feel your pain, OP.

As I understand it, however:

Curtains are sold in pairs, but the measurements are given for each curtain. So if it says 120 x 120, then that's for ONE curtain out of two in the pair.

Hence, if you buy a pair of curtains that are the measurements for your window, you will get twice the amount of fabric, so it drapes nicely,

If you’re near to a John Lewis or other curtain specialist shop go in and talk to them. They’re very helpful and will tell you all the measurements you need to take.
The more material you have (1.5 or twice the width) the fuller and grander your curtains will look. But then you’ll need to have track that’s a bit wider so when they’re open they clear the window.
Google it. Look on YouTube. Lots of great advice on there.

Thanks all. photos attached hopefully. The rail sags because I think it needs more clips to hold it up.

The width is per curtain so a pair of 90" wide curtains is plenty for pencil pleats.

For curtains with inbuilt rings, the curtains aren't gathered, though so go for each curtain being about 2/3-3/4 of the length of the pole.

And you can use as many clips as necessary with a track. poles can be a bit useless in bay windows because it's really hard to make them stable and secure with only 3 fixing points. A pole is going to be completely out of the question if we decide to put curtains in our bay.

I'm far too interested in curtains!

Some fabrics drape better and are less bulky even with lining, don't buy unseen. Eg cotton, thinner velvets.

Not all tracks are equal, a good quality smooth running metal one would look neat and perform well.

Triple pleat curtains stack back most compact if you haven't much space. It's quite a traditional look but looks nice in a plain or modern fabric. Otherwise you need pencil pleat if you are buying ready made.

Sill length curtains are hated on MN but might be your neatest option, have some made or altered if you need to.

I would hesitate to use curtains that are ungathered when closed, I have temporarily got this in our bedroom it looks awful and bedsitty. You might be OK with a pair of 66" curtains as your window looks quite narrow.

Agree with NotMeNoNo. A ceiling mounted metal track is the way to go here if you want curtains. Go to a good department store or an interior design place to get advice on the right track.

It's hard to tell with your photos, but you could extend the track beyond the bay on each side by approx 20cm which would give room for your curtains to 'stack back' without obscuring the light.

From the photo of the curtains closed it looks as if you have about the right amount of fullness, so the easy way to measure is to measure the width of the bottom of one of the curtains.

Personally I would do interlined roman blinds, but they can be pricey enough to get made. What is your budget for track / curtains / blinds?

You do appear to need a new curtain track as others have suggested, the ones suspended from the ceiling. If the ends of the track extended beyond the actual width of the window, yes, you will be able to draw them back, away from the window when curtains are open to let in as much light as possible.

Yes, to measure how wide the curtains need to be, measure from the beginning of the track to the end of the track. This is why you will need to get the track in place before you do any measuring.

Measure from the top of the window down to where you want the curtains to end for the length.

How much extra material you need in the width for gathers or pleats depends on the type of track you have and the type of material. Material/fabric comes in set widths. Usually you will need a minimum of one and a half times the actual track. (This is then divided into two curtains)

Ready made curtains also come in set widths and lengths.

I suggest you go into a shop that sells curtains and tracks and ask for advice. They can advise you of suitable tracks. Also whether your measurements will allow you to buy ‘ready made’ curtains or if you will need to have them ‘made to measure’.

Personally, I hate ready curtains and usually make my own, but have just splashed out to have ones for our lounge made to measure. They are just too wide and too long to spread out on the floor when making and I am getting too old to be crawling all over the floor. The old ones were made about 25 years ago, have been dry cleaned and still hang beautifully, just bored with them now.