Utterly out of control with state of house - general clutter, daily mess and chores, dirt/cleaning. Help?!

[LittleBirdHouse]

DP and I have a four-children household, with one on the way - our first together. We have a four-bedroom home with no spare rooms nor study to hide paperwork, no utility to dry laundry, minimal storage. We are bursting at the seams somewhat, but do plan to extend the house in time. But the house is just part of the problem.

We have too much stuff - two households combined - and, both working full-time and with four kids in the equation (three of them especially messy), just never seem to get on top of reducing/tidying it. I've never been brilliantly tidy - I used to blitz my bedroom as a child and then let the chaos gradually accumulate again until I couldn't stand it anymore, and then I'd have another big satisfying tidy-up. I'm about the same now - a bit of a "messy creative" (that could be a shit excuse!). DP is naturally messy, and seems to notice day-to-day clutter build-up even less than I do - stuff left on the table/sofa, aired laundry waiting to be put away, piles of his paperwork on the side table in the lounge ... until we're all tripping over stuff and the lounge looks like a dump/laundry drying room and everyone's grumpy with it. Even then, he'll usually need reminding to start doing something about it. He has a "shelf of shit" in the hall, at eye level, with just all sorts on it, all sorts of crap - mail mixed in with tools and cables and the kids' stuff - and it's the first thing you see when you come in the door. I've set up systems - allocated named shelves for everyone's shoes in the porch, for example, and yet his and the kids' shoes just lie around the place. It's instant chaos from the moment you walk in the door! No systems get stuck to.

I feel we're screwed from all angles: too much stuff; not enough storage for what we do need; not enough time to really, thoroughly declutter/clear up; little natural awareness of mess build-up until it's reached disaster point; four children contributing to the mess; not naturally tidy; too messy to clean often/thoroughly enough; crap at daily routines - we just forget, and then find ourselves looking at the dirty dishes/unswept floor the next day; useless at following systems when we I set them up. We're not quite the hoarder next-door, but I worry about getting that way! It's like the blind leading the blind.

Because it bothers me more than DP, I tend to feel more stressed/embarrassed by it. I rarely want any of our friends over anymore (well, I do, but not in this state), whereas DP will invite people in impromptu - and I immediately feel embarrassed. When we do have our friends over, planned, we spend a few hours tidying up together beforehand and getting snappy at each other doing it. When I have a spare window, I'm the one who'll attack the lounge or the kitchen for three hours, clearing everyone's crap out (including mine), vacuuming and dusting, and everyone says how lovely it is afterwards - and two days later, you can't even tell I did it! It's so demotivating. So now I feel very much that I not only absolutely hate the feel of my messy home, but also, what's the point my even doing anything about it? It's becoming overwhelming and isolating.

I have several decluttering books. I've looked at Fly Lady - there's no way that's going to work in our house! I've done the Konmari method on my clothes with some success. I get all the theory, but the reality seems to me that with one person leading on it in a household of six who are all messy and aren't really that bothered, it just isn't possible to get cleared up in the first place, and to stay that way by getting everyone on board with a daily clean-up routine.

And on principle, I refuse to be the traditional housewife figure who does 90% of it (I can't anyway because I work); when I get so desperate that I tackle it on my own, I just end up feeling resentful afterwards. But if I don't, we have the status quo - nothing changes.

But it just makes me so miserable. DS has a friend over this morning - hearteningly, other kids seem to love coming over! - and when his mum dropped him off, she just strolled in. I was hoping to keep her on the doorstep! I just felt so ashamed of the state of the place. I could see her looking around weighing it all up - dirty dishes in the sink and backing up on the worktop, unwiped table covered with paperwork, shoes around the floor, hall floor piled with stuff (jumble to go out, a baby buggy to find a home for, the Hoover, which has no home). Awful.

I have just gone on maternity leave - we now have baby stuff thrown into the mix as well. I'm worried baby arriving will be the tipping point into hoarder next-door doom - or worse than that, PND; I don't want to stare at this chaos day in, day out for months. I'm already getting anxious about the likely stream of visitors after the birth, and the place being such a shameful mess. How on earth, in our circumstances and with our seemingly natural messiness, do we ever turn this situation around? I just can't do it all on my own, and with a small baby - it's a massive undertaking - and I would end up hating them all if I did anyway , but I can't make the rest of the household address the state of the house and commit to a new keeping-on-top-of-it routine, can I? What's the answer?

(Sorry this is so long - I didn't realise just how much I needed to get all this off my chest! )

You poor thing. It does sound like a massive, ginormous de-clutter is needed. Make an event of it, give each of the kids a bin bag (or two). Just get rid. You need to get back in control.

Consistency is the key, I think. Things slide because I don't get round to them for some reason, whether it's a genuine reason or CBA. I have done Flylady when I've been off work long-term sick, working, with and without children and I know that what makes it work for me is my attitude and just sticking with it (I'm on the February fledglings thread if you'd like to join us there).

Spend a few hours tidying it up all together (as you have done before) and try to be a bit more pushy about getting everyone to spend just a few minutes getting it back into that state before bedtime every day. Otherwise it's a weekly clean-up job. If they have to do it more often (the big clean-up) it may motivate them to make it a shorter job by keeping it cleaner more often Or is there anything else that would motivate them (money, fave food, other treat?)

Good luck, and join us on the fledglings thread for support (as I slam the lid of the laptop and continue tidying myself ....)

De-cluttering sounds like a good starting point. I've always been overwhelmed and demotivated at housework. We went away at October half term, so the house went between September to December without a deeper clean, and by November it was rather depressing. At Christmas we did some deep sorting of some cupboards and freed up and allocated storage for things we genuinely need. I'm using the Fly Lady and the Kondo thread for motivation even if my methods deviate.

I'm trying to drag DS (4) in with timer challenges. 10p to complete, 20p to beat the timer. I'm also trying to do a regular light tidy to stop it all building up. It's early days, but I've not descended into my usual chaos yet and I normally would have by now, long ago!

Place marking for tips.
Ds is going on a sleepover tonight. I can't find any clean pj's for him amongst all the different piles of clean and dirty washing. So i am resorting to ironing the pair he has worn for the last 2 nights in the hope they will appear clean to the family he is staying with! It's a new low.

I swear by kondo method, there's no point bringing in new systems until you've got rid of stuff. We allocated an ikea crate per child downstairs as well as craft stuff, anything else they wAnted to keep goes in their rooms. Early days yet but so much much easier to keep tidy when less stuff, you must sort before baby comes, can you throw a hormonal hissy fit to get the others on board?

Good luck

If you are heavily pregnant I doubt the other mum would judge you. You have two issues clutter and house work. All my suggestions maybe not be so helpful with being heavily pregnant. Have you spoke to DH about how you feel? Can you both spend a couple of sessions minus kids starting decluttering? Then you need to share out the chores.

I think a good starting point is to stop buying things unless you absolutely need it and start decluttering. Just do a shelf or a drawer. When you've done that, stick it on your list and tidy/declutter a month later (or 3 or 6 months later).

I have an app on my phone called Remember the Milk. All of my tasks are on there and repeat after set intervals (so I clean the cat flap once a day, wash the sheets after 7 days, clean the toilet after 5 days, clean the bedroom light after a month, etc, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I'm a complete lazy arse and often miss things but this generally keeps me on track. Most of the jobs are small and only take a few minutes.

You need to be disciplined yourself and delegate out the jobs. Housework is dull but it's even duller when you're always behind. We had family over at the weekend and the only thing that really needed doing was running the hoover over downstairs. DH obliged...

Morning littlebird
How are you feeling today? Great advice upthread, and I agree that a massive declutter is the way forward first of all. Then keeping on top of it & establishing little routines is so much easier.
It is really disheartening, and I bet even more so with the pregnancy hormones! You sound at the 'Right! That's it!!!' Stage, which in my experience gets the best results. I think, with DH, you should start first on the 'shelf of shit' and making the area near the front door tidier. Get any dirty dishes washed and put away. The konmarie process has really worked for us. As has getting the kids do a quick tidy away before bed, and making sure the dishwashers loaded & kitchen's straight for the morning. Be ruthless.. Pick stuff up, does it bring you joy? No? Chuck it straight away. I used to have a lot of the feelings you did, so it can get better, promise.

Sounds like decluttering is necessary, but difficult with 4 DC and a baby on the way. I think you need to build tidying times into the day so that everyone gets involved. Put the cleaning aside for now. You'll just stress yourself out putting in a 3 hour marathon of tidying before you can even get out a duster!

We are soooo not on top of ours and I'm not sure how old your DC are, but with an 8 and 6 year old things that help us are:

• DC have set tasks. Before we go downstairs for breakfast they open their curtains and make their beds. If they want the TV on I often ask them to clear the playroom floor first, or at least stuff they have finished with. When they were preschoolers we used to do tidy up time with special music every night at bedtime, though that's lapsed now. When they come into the house they hang up coats, put shoes in the rack, take bottles & lunchbags to kitchen. It is worth enforcing this kind of thing. Keeping their stuff off the hall floor is one of their tasks towards getting their pocket money, although it still takes a lot of reminding.
• DC1 is an awful scruff, takes after me and her room was just a disaster zone. She now has tonnes of storage and she knows where everything goes. She has trofast drawers for her hobby stuff (gym, swimming, recorder gubbins), a whole bedside drawer for hair things (it's a chaotic tip but at least it's out of sight), drawers in her desk for her piles of papers, a drawer in her bedside for the mountains of books that used to grow by her bed. She has 10 mins a day in her bedtime routine which she's meant to spend tidying her room, and it works pretty well. We taught her to tidy by picking up 5 things, then 5 more, then 5 more until it's done.
• When tidying I like the laundry basket method - go round collecting everything misplaced into the laundry basket. When you've finished collecting, go round distributing things to their right places. For now I would set up a 'misc' storage facility for everything that doesn't have a home, and change your DH's shelf to a drawer for your own sanity!
• we are not on top of much really but we do make sure the kitchen is cleaned and pots washed every single night. I also try to empty the dishwasher every morning so that it can be refilled easily and stuff doesn't pile up through the day.

I think our mistake is that we don't tidy before it gets messy. We let that last 5% stay out every day and it builds into clutter. If we disciplined ourselves to tidy to schedule, before it got bad, it would stay manageable and quick to do. But on the other hand, I just can't get het up about paperwork being out if you're in the middle of doing paperwork. The house is for living in, using, not just a big tidying task hanging over you. Stuff out in itself shouldn't be a problem, you shouldn't spend your life constantly tidying away stuff you are using just in case someone pops round. The problem is if you've finished what you need to do and it's still there a week later (which TBF is often the case for us!).

I like the A Slob Comes Clean blog for camaraderie, and the Apartment Therapy 'how to clean your house in 20 mins a day' is interesting though I think that's designed to work only after you've cracked the tidying!

Oops, sorry for the epic post!

I'm going to suggest a different tack, to consider trying because you'll get lots of advice here about how to clean and tidy!

1. It is ok if your house it cluttered. Tell yourself that! Totally understandable. Your friends don't judge you, so don't put yourself, your DH or your DCs through it. Acceptance that a big family with 2 households of stuff will mean some chaos for some time. It gets better as the children get older.

1. You can change some things but only so much. Appreciate the little things that do get sorted, as well as the good times had with family and friends, and try to put that thought ahead of the nagging feelings that are getting you down.

Is there anywhere at all that you can put a tumble dryer? There's nothing worse than loads of clothes drying all around the house to make things look untidier than they really are. I have recently bought one and the difference it has made is amazing. I can do all the washing in one day and no longer need to do any ironing .
I am de-cluttering a bit myself today. Bought a roll of bin bags and will be ruthless.

Do you have a paper shredder? All junk and our no longer required mail goes straight in there to avoid it lying around for months.

I have 4 kids and could have written your post word for word last summer. Dealing with the house mess was like ground hog day, relentless and pointless.

That's until I discovered Marie Kondo. It took 4 months of serious decluttering (I probably spent 20 hours a week doing it) and yes the house got into a state while in process. However after getting rid of about 1/2 our belongings and having nothing more to get rid of, I started looking at household systems and storage gaps which for a change actually seem to be working. I've also added new rules. So the boys must tidy up their mess as they go and they also have set jobs.

Yes it was led by me. Yes I spend two very long days in each DC's room, going through clothes/toys and then teaching the boys how to fold. Despite being reluctant initially, they prefer their rooms orderly and became very good at giving away joyless toys.

I think it probably will need to come from you (and DH) initially but you are very capable of turning things around. It just takes time and commitment.

I'm twitching... are you close, I'll come over

I agree with the above. You need to have a huge chuck out and in the meantime have a one in one out rule.

And don't go to bed on an untidy kitchen. Something for your dude to take on.

I'm so sorry for not replying until now - baby brain, a birthday, lots of kids, and an issue to sort with the pregnancy, all had me forget about my post for a few days. But I'm so glad I checked back, and thank you all for persisting with my long ranty post, and for your advice and tips. I'm so grateful.

Well, had I responded straight away, I'd have probably grumbled some more about how undoable it all is. But we had a good weekend with it all, in the context of everything else that's going on.

I can completely see that decluttering is key, so that's the priority. I have talked to DP some more about how I feel, and he is taking it on board - he came in from work Friday and cleared his shelf of shit! Granted, its contents are now in two boxes that need further sorting out, but (a) they're not at eye level in the hall anymore, and (b) he's put them into separate boxes for paperwork and tools, as I said that clearing out by type of stuff is more effective than by area alone - a la Marie Kondo. He's on board with that - can see its effectiveness.

We have put five clothes/fabric collection bags in the loft and two bags of jumble, ready for the next school collection in the spring. I've taken three black bags of better quality stuff to the charity shop. We've put clothes that don't fit any of the kids at the moment, but might fit some of them in the future, in the loft, organised in boxes, labelled.

My mum has been a legend and taken a few bits to the tip for us and taken out all our recycling stuff (glass, cartons, foil, etc) that had built up. She's helped us clean a bit too, and the lounge has been roughly tidy for two days. I've been remembering to have a five-minute spruce before bed. We have mostly been clearing the kitchen before bed. DS has acquired the job of daily dishwasher unloader.

I have also downloaded the Remember the Milk app - thanks for that suggestion. We've put it on DP's and my gadgets. Do you have the full subscription? I'm thinking it could be worth it. Need to set up the reminders next, but can see it'll be easier to stick with it once the house is clearer. For us, having the reminders to do a late-night tidy-up, empty the bins, etc, will be great - we overlook a lot of this stuff ordinarily, until we reach crisis-point.

VioletMoon4683, I'm inspired that you've managed it with four kids too. But 20 hours a week, for months? I don't/won't have that much time! Do you work? How have you fitted it in? I think I might manage half of this maybe, once the baby is sleeping enough for me to not feel wiped out, some months down the line. Really inspiring though; clearly it can be done.

My plan, when DP's kids are next with us later this week, is to get them to go round with a black bag each and gather up all their coats and shoes that don't fit anymore - there are loads lying everywhere. DP can then go through them and decide what's worth keeping for younger ones to grow into, and what's not. All ours are primary school-aged, bar one who's at secondary school.

A few questions ...

(1) If I declutter books next, Kondo-style, what do I do with them? Charity shop? Jumble? Or sell? Some are in quite good condition - cookery books and gardening books, for example. It'd be good if we could get a bit of cash from getting rid of them, but not if it's hugely involved - we won't have the time.

(2) My DS (nearly 11) is convinced his friends don't have to do housework, and thinks it's a bit of pain that he has to - not loads, but a bit. What do/would you expect your kids this age to do? He understands the in-principle argument for him chipping in, but I think is caught up in an immature it's-not-fair mentality too. All tips for kid cooperation welcome!

(3) DS also grumbles because DP's kids don't do much housework-wise - they're not here every day so it's harder to have them do set jobs, which we'd be in the mentality of doing otherwise. How can we tackle this, so it's fair and everyone is expected to pull their weight fairly, whenever they're here?

I felt so disheartened by all this on Friday, and I do still wonder how I'll make continuing headway with it with a newborn and a major building project to co-manage, but I do feel more positive today. Once you can see stuff leaving the place, and space start to appear, it's encouraging.

Thank you all so much again for your suggestions and tips. 2015 is going to have to be the year of Clearing the Crap!

Oh, and we do have a tumble drier, but we try not to use it much due to cost. We heat the house all through winter with a wood-burner, so drying in front of this is free ... just messy!

Hi OP.

Depending on what was happening some weeks I decluttered from 8am to 10pm on a Saturday. DH had all the kids and took them out.

My DS is 11 too. He unloads the dishwasher daily, straightens his room daily and folds any washing into his drawers Kondo style daily so they are upright and all visible)

Hi. I have 4 kids and a small house with totally inadequate storage. All the families in this estate have the same problems and so the ones who have a garage to stuff the crap in are envied .

We have to be much more minimalist and unsentimental than I would like. Regular declutters and charity shop / dump runs. To keep on top of the bare minimum of standards I do ; 1 round of laundry a day ( one wash, one on to dry, one put away); clean one bit of the bathroom every time I'm in - cleaning stuff is in bathroom; and The Sweep.

The Sweep was DPs idea. Without being sergeant majorish he gets everybody to spend 15 min after dinner working together on the kitchen doing dishes and bins, wiping surfaces an mopping floor. Then again together we sweep the living room and hall for daily clutter such as toys, shoes, bags, papers and put them away. This takes approx. another 15 mins ( I fell off the FlyLady wagon long ago but the 15 min seems to have stuck). I have a desk for paperwork and a box for things being tidied straight to charity. These get sorted by me later.

I don't work so I have time to do more but I revert to this basic routine often if we have a lot on, illness etc ( in your case job and new baby.) As its teamwork it gets done anyway if someone is ill/out/doing exams. At weekends I take an hour and blitz an area. Usually a kids room with them helping. That's it. Obviously more needs done but that's all I involve the kids in apart from the odd dog walk or bit of gardening.

DP is a book hoarder so now he has a kindle . Decluttered books go to charity, they don't fetch much second hand and you don't have time to sell and post.

As for cheerful kid cooperation, no, no tips there! They grumble but it is daily routine and we are pretty free and easy with what they do the rest of the time. I let them choose music while we work, it helps.

In terms of Remember the Milk, yes, I have a Pro account. It costs just over £16 per year. I use the website and the app and with Pro it sinks instantly.

Have tried loads of apps and systems and this is the one I always go back to. It's the only thing that keeps me vaguely on track. It's easily accessible on my phone so I can add to it/tick things off wherever.

You've made a good start. Accept that some days you will fall off the wagon and feel a bit despondent. We all do it. You just need to keep chipping away. It does get easier if you stick with it...

gardening and cookery books are worth nothing to sell. The world is full of them. Take to charity shop and forget. And don't buy any more!

what your son's friends allegedly have to do or not do in their houses is of no relevance at all. He lives in your house and does his share according to your rules. As should his father.

the step-kids should do equal when they are there; bed making, dishwasher emptying, rubbish removal, tidying up.

I think you wee doing briliant. Good on you. I wouldn't even bother with books, just dump dump dump

Get black bags for rubbish and say blue rubble bags for charity and fill as much as you can each day.

Books - charity. Yor time and happiness is worth more than the effort for a couple of pound. Set the timer for half an hour and reward yourself with a sit down and magazine after.

Could your mum babysit and you dump stuff then reward her with a coffee shop visit/ nails or something

I used an old thread on here in 2013 and I got rid of so much and it's never accumulated again, even reduced, I have since had two babies and I am ruthless with stuff. Photograph it and dump it.

No child's friends ever do homework, housework, have to be in bed so early, have to be in by dark. Everybody except your child has a swing, a horse, an account whatever social media site is in vogue, the latest smart phone, a car.

All 5 of my DC/DSCs have been the same. My house my rules, they are now aged between 18 and 29 and didn't die through changing their own beds, emptying the bins or unloading the dishwasher much younger than 11.

Watching this thread! Good Luck OP!

I think the important thing with the step children is that they should be helping at the same time as your ds when they're there.
If he normally does the dishwasher on his own, then he'll do it quicker with a helper! They shouldn't be relaxing when he's working, that's unfair.