How the Georgians prevented damp

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

I'm a little bit obsessed with damp at the moment.

I've especially been thinking about how to prevent it other than by leaving the heating fairly high even in unused parts of the house, and in old houses where you're limited in your options for internal or external wall insulation.

So I was wondering how people managed it, pre-central heating. Obviously there was less water being chucked into the atmosphere, pre- frequent showers and baths, and open fires are very effective in drying the air. But I was wondering about what happened in unused rooms and areas like servants' rooms where there weren't necessarily regular fires, so I've been reading about Georgian housekeeping routines and have discovered the following things:

1. Even without our amount of plumbing, they were conscious of limiting the amount of moisture that got into the air. Washing floors was disapproved of because it caused damp, so you only did it as part of the annual spring clean. In some houses the number of tea kettles was limited.

1. I don't know when the mechanism of warm air holding more water was first described, but they understood very clearly that heat drove out damp - chafing dishes burning charcoal were used in empty rooms in damp weather.

1. The main one - ventilation, ventilation and more ventilation. In one housekeeping book I read, the servants' garrets were to be 'as airy as possible', which I take to mean windows left open whenever possible. Airing rooms was part of the daily routine, along with opening and shutting the blinds to prevent light damage.

What I find so interesting about this is that was clearly an issue which they saw as needing actively managing. I think these days we tend to expect to be fairly passive in using our houses - we expect them to behave themselves whatever they do and if they don't we often tend to panic and be tempted by expensive treatments, or else want a magic product to solve the problem. I think I assumed people used to be equally passive, it was just that the buildings worked for the lifestyle - but actually, it seems, a large part of housekeeping was actually about maintaining the building itself healthily.

UniS - I wouldn't complain about the damp too much, we chose to live here - and I am sure we contribute by drying our washing etc.

But none of the windows here work - actually one does, in one of the bedrooms, but it's on the side of the house, sort of a 'wing' on its own, which isn't much use.

Cheap rent though.

Ha. DH had a go at me the other day, for wanting additional extractor fans in the utility room and kitchen (in addition to the hob extractor), in the renovation we're doing. He thought it would "look awful", dated, blah, blah and blah.

...Then he had round the damp person, who said lots of ventilation/dehumidifiers were needed anywhere moisture was generated.

"My husband never listens to me." (or shouldthat be some sort of hashtag?

Very interesting discussion, Tunip!

Sometimes just keeping the windows open just doesn't do the job though UniS...why the dig at renters? I'm sure there are loads of owners with damp problems too they just don't have a LL to complain too [hmmm]

It depends what the source of moisture is. In UK homes, the most common cause of condensation, damp and mould is occupants adding litres of water to the air by draping wet washing around their homes or over radiators.

Followed by steamy showers.

In both these cases the problem is excessive water vapour. This can be cured by putting it outside the home by ventilation.

There are less common causes such as plumbing and roof leaks or groundwater. Ventilation will help dry these out but will not remove the cause.

there is no eleven teen. you got it with your last sentence.... people who own just have deal with it. Same age of houses and flats ,same estate, same issues.

We don't have a structural damp problem (well-built, well-ventilated, well-heated apartment on fourth floor of 1920s building) but I do open the windows in all rooms for an hour or more every 24 hours. Homes need airing!

A lot of older homes have showers or baths installed in poorly ventilated places that were never designed for water vapours.

We found two things helped with condensation:

1. double-glazing- seems to stop the horrible condensation on windows b) being able to have the heating on more in the winter- achieved in our case by switching from LPG to a biomass boiler

We also have a dehumidifier running constantly (this is Devon!) in our back kitchen where we dry washing in the rainy season (ie most of the time). Somewhere under that back kitchen is a well, allegedly, and it's flipping freezing in there without dehumidifier.

Interesting thread!

We are trying to future proof our house a bit rue weather/ damp.

Our house is a bit damp in the bathroom due to steam, so we are having an extractor fan fitted. The main issue is the mould behind fittings and the mushroomy smell.

But some other areas are damp because of roof damage. We are having a new roof fitted next week! ( the roofers are doing the hole for the fan at the same time).

We're having 2 chimneys taken off, with vents into roof space, so we won't have to worry about maintaining the flashing etc.

We have 1 working chimney, which provides plenty of ventilation.....brrrrr! I do think the draught proofing v ventilation balance is quite difficult.

Oh uniS behave yourself will you! It's a full time job managing the damp, I window vac the windows every morning open all windows and doors for an hour and a half, go to the laundrette to dry my washing. Shower with the windows open brr, window vac the entire shower and tiles after. Once a week bleach all the mould, wash the window frames. Cook with the windows open and saucepan lids on.

Shock horror i rent!!!!

Ours if fake Georgian with sash windows and high ceilings and a good bit of air does get in at the top of some of the sash windows. We don't have damp because it's a modern house and is warm and I suppose quite aired.

I agree with the point about tenants. They almost need sheet of paper when they move in telling them how to manage a house to reduce damp regarding windows and washing.

Most damp, unless it's coming from a leaky gutter, rising ground damp or roof problems, comes from what's happening inside - the occupants and their activities. Especially with modern houses, damp doesn't magic its way in through the walls.

I know what you mean by managing the damp being a full-time job Damn - I have a constant battle with mould.

I've now realised it is only on the inside of the walls with painted render (one side and front of house) so at some point I think someone must have used impermeable masonry paint. Probably not a lot I can do about it on my small budget.

Odd, I have friends who rent and they are not so thick that they require a sheet of paper when they move in telling them how to manage a house to reduce damp regarding windows and washing, perhaps you have just been unlucky with your tenants LauraBridges.

Damnautocorrect, I used to faff about doing all that sort off thing but I just the dehumidifier do it now. It's a bit of a cost to shell out for but its been fantastic and it will dry washing overnight.

I've lived in about 15 places since leaving home, I've lived the same way in each one, some houses have been more prone to damp and others have had no damp at all. 1 ground floor flat in particular was tricky, it had massive double glazed windows so you could only leave the windows open if you were in and awake, my usual habit of sleeping with the window open a little bit had to be abandoned for a while which didn't help particularly.

One of the big drawbacks of damp management as a tenant is unfamiliarity with a property and the measures if any installed to combat damp, combined with not always being in a position to invest in remedies (stripping the impermeable paint mentioned a few times above, repairing windows and vents and gutters). Sometimes LLs have lived in a place first, sometimes not, so the person in a position to make these investments may never have done so, or not know thst it is needed.

We have a coldish shower room at the back of the house. If I use it I use a big window wiper type window cleaner on all the walls of the shower (not just the glass door) before I get out and across the shower floor. It's surprising how much water is just lying on the surfaces and therefore needs to evaporate before the room can dry. So doing this reduces condensation.

Also, in this very wet weather we have nowadays, the sandstone chimneys in my house eventually draw in the moisture. Sandstone is porous and eventually if it is wet out of doors and dry, say on the inside of the chimney, if will act like a sponge, the moisture constantly coming through to evaporate on the inside, but also making damp patches on ceilings and walls nearby.

I light fires in the chimneys every so often but it isn't a cure as long as the rain keeps on falling.

Ive lived in 3 rented houses in the last 8 years.

First one- new build never a spot of damp
Second one- 80's built council house- damp in every fucking room!
Third one- 30's built council house- slight damp in one built in cupboard in my room that was there when i moved in (i clean it but it persists)

Ive lived in all houses exactly the same way. Apart from in house one i dried washing on radiators (no damp in tjat house in 6 years) and houses 2 and 3 ive used a dehumidifier in the hot press to dry washing.

And no- i dont need a sheet of paper telling me to open the sodding windows. I wouldnt mind one telling me how to get an apparently no existent LL to uphold their side of the contract and carry out essential repairs!

Two words - lime plaster. Breathes and absorbs the damp and then lets it dry out.

We live in a 5 story over basement Georgian house, built in 1780 and we have no damp at all, even when we have a leaking roof! (Sigh)
There is a cold feeling in the cellars, but no damp. We are on an elevated site, so no flooding. All the floors are teak, and we have wool carpets as the wind blows up through the cracks, and it was cold and draughty on the floors without wall to wall carpeting.

The plaster on the walls is made from horsehair and lime mixed up, and the ceilings are made with laths supporting the beautiful plasterwork roses. Ceilings are super high, and rooms are well lit and airy.

All our rooms have large 12 pane wooden sash windows, and I open them for at least an hour every day. In fact one of them is open day and night, as I like the breeze on the return of the stairs.
We have windows on four sides, so we can choose which are the best ones to open for ventilation depending on the wind direction.

Maybe the problem is that when you have people leaving the house to go to work, the shower room windows are closed just after use to deter burglars, but this makes the rooms damp and mouldy, as the extractor fans aren't left on.

I'm lucky I work from home, so have the windows open without fearing intruders. Most people who WOTH have to close the bathroom windows just after use as they're all leaving for work, and the alarm system has to go on. Maybe the extractor fan should be left running to get rid of the water in the air?

I've always favoured a breeze through a house, and in all my other homes I never had a damp problem, or mould.
I even shower with the window open if I can as I like to hear the birds tweeting and see the roofs and trees.. We have a vent in most walls as well.

The housing stock is mostly old and inadequate here, made for living centuries ago.

an extractor fan will typically run for 50 hour on 11p worth of electricity, so is very helpful and inexpensive in a bathroom.

Some houses have them worn out or noisy, but they can easily be replaced.

Hmm, I wonder if mine needs replacing. I've very geekily been taking a humidity meter into the bathroom and timing how long it takes for the RH to return to normal if I do it with the fan compared to if I open the window, and it's over an hour with the fan compared to less than 10 minutes with the window (this is in a variety of different weathers, including dampish though not actually pouring with rain).

Tunip John Carr's Dad designed our house...I think his son moved onto bigger and better jobs though, we're not Harewood House!

I definitely think the cellars and drafty windows help with damp. We've much less here than we had in previous Victorian houses. We just had the cellar converted and when they lifted the flags there was a system of drainage channels under the floor that was still working!

Lol at liking a breeze running through the house. Sure you do.

New build timber framed house here, no damp.

Last house was awful, having to dry windows after sleeping - I would heave doing it. It's basically sweat.

Far more of it is from your breath than from your sweat, unless you're ill or your bedroom is far too hot!