I need advice please, from anyone who has small children and a house they manage to keep clean by 'just swishing a cloth around each day'

[poachedeggs]

Because it's friggin' impossible.

I have a 5 year old and a 2.9year old. Wherever they've been there's a trail of crap. DS is obsessed with fiddling, especially with things that are not toys, so he's constantly carrying around rocks, sticks, bits of random string and plastic, cardboard boxes etc. Then leaving them at his arse. DD is younger, fair enough, but it's her life's mission to drag out the contents of anything I tidy away. I can either spend all day saying 'no' (more than I do already ) or I can let her get on with dressing my house.

They have plenty toys but rarely play with toys. They like playing with blankets, Tupperware, bank cards, small change, permanent markers and clean laundry.

I feel like they're messing it up faster than I can tidy it. We've been trying to declutter but everything we sort through gets turned over by rummaging hands. I'm impatient and shouty and my house is a shit tip. I started attacking it after breakfast but DD took it upon herself to take the covers off all the sofa cushions while I was restoring the upturned shoe rack.

My predictive text screwed that post up but you get the gist. It's in keeping with the theme anyway!

Oh I'm with you OP.

We just got back from a visit to childless friends with a beautiful minimalist open plan perfect house, & DP has taken to roaming around our house bemoaning the clutter & generally grubby state of affairs. It's all I can do to manage the DC, keep the kitchen clean & do the laundry. Anything else doesn't happen

Keep the permanent markers out of reach! And other stuff you don't want them to play with. We've got minimal stuff in the living room and bedrooms for this reason. Also good storage for stuff. We use a stairgate across the dining room so neitther of them can get to it unless we let them. Same for utility room - hook on the door up high so they can't get in (cleaning stuff in there).

Also getting out of the house regularly keeps the mess down.

And having places for stuff - so the kids know where to put things back (well they're young at 3&1 so they take the lead from me).

How did you handle the sofa cushions being stripped?

Ok, we are aiming for minimal stuff in the sitting room. They have one big toy chest. Which is less interesting than sofa cushions, evidently. I asked her to stop, so she did. But obviously I then had to sort them out.

We have no utility or dining room. We have a tiny sitting room with a small desk, two small sofas, a TV, a small bookcase and a toy chest.

A kitchen with insufficient storage, but a plastic chest of drawers for toys.

Bedroom for the DC is small, plenty storage in walk in wardrobes but DD loves to empty this out for fun so I can't even really relax about that. Yesterday she'd pulled out two huge underbed storage boxes full of hand me down clothes and strewn their (previously clean and folded) contents all around the room while I hung the washing out.

Gah.

As for getting out the house I feel that's half the trouble! We both work and then there's the school runs, shopping runs, swimming lessons, sports clubs, 'play dates' and optimistic attempts to squeeze in exercise and socialising.

These DC make a point of maximising available destruction time.

I could have written your post except I have 11, 4 and 2 year old DDs!

I have taken today off work so that I can tidy up while the DDs are at school and nursery. I don't think it will stay tidy!

If you find a solution please let me know.

Without being rude do you think behaviour and discipline are actually the problem here?

I don't know, what standards of behaviour and discipline can you exist from kids of their ages?

DD is a contrary tantrumming toddler, so I don't get my knickers in a twist if she refuses to clear up. She definitely makes most mess but my expectations are less because she's little.

DS is on another planet most of the time. He'll happy clear up if I ask him to, and then remind him what he's supposed to be doing approximately every three seconds. But he's oblivious to the mess he's making most of the time.

However, it is possible that it's my own fault. Maybe I need to inject some Victorian values into the household?

*expect not exist

DS finds muck wherever he goes! And will take the place from decent to riot in the 5 minutes before someone visits.

He does get quiet time if he empties drawers though.

Narky that's a matter of opinion. I think children should be free to live in their own home. They naturally make more mess as they are curious and experimental. I know a couple with a lounge with cream walls, cream carpet, cream furniture. They keep that looking nice by not letting their 3 DCs in, unless they are on a plastic mat. I think that's a bit sad really, it's the DCs home too after all.

Of course it's opinion an I'm not saying the op is a bad mother or anything but she's wondering what happens in other people's homes.

Children should live freely, but that doesn't have to be at the expense of learning to tidy up after themselves.

Your example grow is very much the opposite extreme. I'm in the middle. House s a mess in the day but we all tidy everywhere before bed.

Me too but I don't allow any sofa stripping.
I bought my disgustingly expensive sofa before I realised that I would have yet another baby so it's off limits.
I'm currently paying someone to Hoover upstairs And do my bathrooms and that has really helped.
The rest of the house is an ongoing thing I feel.

I think the answer is either to keep your children locked in the shed, or take lots of drugs so you can clean all night.

I know someone who has five young kids and gets the house perfect every night before she goes to bed but yes, she is very Victorian in her methods. Slap, slap.

Once I'm on top of things it is easier to stay on top of things but it gets back on top of me so easily again.

I hear your pain, OP. I have a muddy dog, a 2.7yo whirlwind of destruction and a baby who is currently watching his older brother playing the sneezing game and just itching to join in. The sneezing game, btw, is where you perform a series of ever louder and more violent 'atCHOO!'s while emptying the contents of your bookshelf/toy box dramatically onto the dining room floor :o.

I am a big believer in children exploring and learning at home. I was talking to an early years educator about the sneezing game the other day and she said it's an incredibly common schema, and as with other schemas they will repeat the play numerous times. I only really intervene if he warns to do something really destructive or wasteful. So, for example, we currently have a lock on the outside of the bathroom door because he enjoys peeling off the paint in there and switching the bath taps on full blast.

With regards to your actual question - we have lowered our standards, got rid of sofa cushions and hired a cleaner. Her coming once a week shames us into not letting the house go completely :o.

DD1 was the messiest child when she was smaller but she is 9 now and keeps her room very tidy. She seems to get stressed when it's messy. DD2 is coming up to 5 and understands that things need to be put away but doesn't always think to do it.

My pet hate is mealtimes - the mess they can make then drives me insane. We had chilli last night and the area round DD2 was just rice carnage. Even DD1 seems to miss her mouth at least once per meal.

I think it's because playing is more interesting than tidying up and talking is more interesting than eating though. And they are right really aren't they.

The drugs and the shed are the most attractive prospects so far. And a cleaner. Not that I could afford the fees to clean this madness up!

Declutter, then declutter some more. Be ruthless. Do it when they're out/in bed/whatever. The less stuff there is the less they can trash. It has taken me many years of parenting to realise this but oh my goodness does it make a difference.

Minimalistic house

Toys only out on the (large) rug. We live in an open plan flat so don't want to be falling over toys in kitchen area etc

Food only at table. They are trained to wait for hands an face to be cleaned after food before they get down.

Toys are tidied at the end of each 'play time', ie they have lunch then nap, so all toys tidied up together before lunch. Again before dinner as no time to play after and then it's tidy for the evening.

Also storage for everything so hidden. We have all shoes/ hats/ coats, and even pram hidden away so clear hallway. In bathroom all toiletries/ spare towels/ bath toys are in a cupboard with door or drawers so 'mess' is not on view. Kitchen sides are clear, sideboards have few select pieces but no clutter.

Our flat is white decor, with floor to ceiling glass, white sofas, fur rugs and is fine with two toddlers. Some might not like having 'rules' , but we rent a furnished property and so need it to be kept nice. As well as our own stuff.

It all means that everything is a quicker job to clean as nothing has to be moved.