Sister's house is a mess!

[Ohnanawhatsmynickname]

My sisters house is an absolute mess!
Untidy, cluttered, dirty, unhygienic.
She has a DC (1).
Our parents, my DB and Dsil and myself & DH are worried that the level is unacceptable and that living like this will become the norm for their DC.
The house smells ( bin, cat tray and dirty nappies)
There is stuff everywhere - general untidiness, but also they never throw things out (e.g old car radio given to them 8 /9 years ago languishes in the hallway - has actually moved house with them!)
Always unwashed pots in sink.
They go away for a weekend and leave unwashed pots including DC's bottle festering in living room.
Upstairs is a tip 2nd bedroom used as as dumping ground full of rubbish.
Hazards for their DC and mine left around (nail scissors, batteries, paracetamol)
How can we make them realise it isn't OK to live like that without offending? Can we do it without offending?
Genuinely worried about safety both hygiene (dirty fridge and kitchen floor) and safety from get hold of stuff DC shouldn't and tripping over things left on floor!

Would she accept help if you and family had a ' black bag' weekend.

Hi yes live 5 mins away.
Don't want to involve HV. I don't think it is anything to do with not coping.
She is great with DC just not at tidying - was same as a child. But needs to get sorted for sake of DC.
She is back at work and does 3 x 12 hour shifts. But was the same before DC and even when out of work for 6 months. Wondered whether it was depression but don't think it is.

Black bag day sound like a good idea. We all want to help.
We are just worried about offending.
But I think it needs to be done.

I should imagine that she will be embarrassed inially but thankful once she sees what a difference it can make. Must be hard mentally to live like that, not always easy to ask for or accept help

I wouldn't worry about offending I think if you pussyfoot around the issue they might not get the message.

I think the black bag idea is a good one, once you have helped out with the initial mess maybe help with a plan to maintain it,

Yes it must be. I already look after her DC 8-7 one day and work myself in 2 jobs (one a hobby job) and I am a childminder to be.
I can only really manage 1 more afternoon of looking after her DC but TBH what needs doing is so much more than 1 afternoon a week. So we need to have a big clear out so she can keep on top of it.
My parents help out too Mum has helped her decorate Living, dining room and 2 bedrooms and we really thought having living room done would encourage the tidiness - I feel sorry for my parents as. It must be hard to see all their hard work treated badly.

I think we have pussy footed for long enough.
I am going to rally the troops and we are going in!

I think the obvious hazards, such as nail scissors, batteries, paracetamol and the over-flowing cat litter tray and bins are where you should start first, as these must be dealt with, so you're not all in danger.
Once you have got this sorted, offer to help with the cleaning, de-cluttering and tidying, but if your sister doesn't want to, I don't think there's anything you can do, I'm afraid.

Have they always been like this? Or is it a reflection of the time that having a little one at home can take up? It your sister otherwise happy and healthy as I think neglecting your surroundings can be a sign of depression?

If it is all a bit too much because of looking after the little one, then the idea of a clean up day could be embarrassing, but could help. Once tidy it could be a case that it is more easily kept up.

If it is an indication of their general level of care in their surroundings then it could be that it makes not a bit of difference. Getting rid of things could help a little, but if the neglect continues then it will be back to square one before too long.

Of course, embarrassing your sister could lead to resentment and bad feeling.

I redecorated and spurred my parents into a clean up a few years ago. They were having friends visiting who did not smoke, did not own an enormous smelly dog and who own a pristine house. They threw away lots, let me paint and wallpaper for them and it looked lovely.
A few months on and the walls and ceilings still look nice, but all the clutter and level of (un) cleanliness are the same as they were originally as they have not changes their habits at all.

I know some one whose children were taken away by ss for a dirty house, whilst in care they were sexually abused and the paedophile got sent to jail for it.

Tell her that.

Sorry it's a harsh tale to tell. I wont tell you the worst bit. (yes it got worse).

She is happy, healthy and I think it is who they are, buy maybe it has got worse due to having a DC to look after and all that entails.
They weren't tidy before, and unmotivated re jobs that need doing.
Both work FT and only have one day together as a family.
But I think you are right we need to help initially because what needs to be done is overwhelming.
Re DC being removed from them - it has crossed my mind that if he had an accident and SS visited it would look like they aren't coping. I think it's a little extreme though to say he would be taken away as she is a brilliant mother, BF, homemade food spends time playing with him. I just think their surroundings matter very little to them.
Thank you for replying ( this my first ever MN thread) you have given me confidence to go and do something about it.

Could you not do a deep clean when she is away as a treat for her returning?

I do this with my mums house, not because it's dirty but because it's nice coming home to a spotless house! Extends the holiday iyswim!

Yes will try that i have done a quick tidy round before and it was well received. They are not due to go away for while.
Thanks

Can't you sit her down and say you are worried for the dcs and her? Leaving dangerous stuff around and dirty refuse is not a good mixture with young children is it, and as you said, if her dc had an accident the place wouldn't give a good impression! You don't have to say it in a judgemental way, approach it as wanting to help her in the long term, e.g. setting up a daily checklist of jobs e.g. a cleaning job/room for each day of the week along with daily chores such as taking rubbish out and washing pots that can be ticked.

It sounds like a deep clean and a major clearout is needed but without long term changes to routines and out looks it won't change anything.

When you do the clean up look at where medicines can go that is safest, and same for sharps, look at how cleaning stuff can be easily to hand, think about getting one of the 'team' to put up hooks on the backs of bedroom doors for dressing gowns, hooks up for coats, all that kind of thing that will help keep the house organised.

I used to live like this. It was a culmination if depression, laziness and not really knowing where to start. When it's that bad it's difficult to find the motivation to even get started.

You should ask her outright if it bothers her. If it doesn't then mention the possible health repercussions for her DC when he is walking/crawling/picking up mess. An untidy home is one thing but an unclean home with dangers in the way is another. She may be embarrassed or offended but it really is the only way. Even if she fobs you off I can guarantee it'll play on her mind. Offer her support and help and she'll remember it. Try not to come across as bolshy or condescending though.

The wake up call I needed was when DC1 picked up a cigarette butt and put it in her mouth. After a frantic trip to the hospital where she was okay they told me they had to involve SS. That kicked my arse into gear. I'm not tidy or organised but I am a lot more than I was before. I bleach and clean daily, do the floors once or twice a week and generally keep a decent standard of living.

Our old house was too small and too cluttered to tidy but I tried to keep it clean. We had no hot water in the bathroom and the toilet frequently didn't flush, it was too cold to bathe the baby and impossible to keep clean, our DD was a NICU baby and we struggled to keep everything sterile. I tended to blitz clean every few months and only tidy when I was stressed by the mess so I never really de cluttered just hid stuff.

When we moved house in the summer DD was back in hdu and so the clutter and mess moved with us, six months later I am just, only just beginning to get on top of all the clutter. The trigger was DD getting a stomach bug, I was 99% confined that it came from nursery but I was worried that the state of our house contributed. I took a day off work and cleaned from top to bottom, since then I have found keeping the house clean makes de cluttering a lot easier.

I would have really appreciated my family turning up and saying they were going to get me back on track and pushing me to sort out all the rubbish. I think you need to gently point out the dangers to your sister of nit keeping a house clean and hazard free.

Can I ask - how tidy are you OP?

I only ask because to some, my house would often appear to be an absolute bombsite. To others, my house appears to be quite tidy. It depends on your starting point - if you keep a home that is pristine, then anything less tends to look messy and dirty. If my MIL saw my house on an average day then I think she'd be shocked. If my mother saw my house on an average day then she'd probably think it was quite tidy.

In some cases, there is a real need for someone to DO something about it but often, it's just that one person's standards are different to someone else's.

I'm not naturally a very tidy person, I'm quite lazy and I often think I'd rather do something that interests me than tidy up. I've posted a few times on the declutter/get organised thread and am trying to change, but the change has had to come from me, not anyone else.

Some examples:

Dirty nappies usually go in the living room bin (in bags) which is emptied at night (but sometimes the smell lingers).

There are often unwashed pots and pans in the kitchen, and if we go away for a weekend I don't always make sure they're done before we go.
My dining room table is currently covered in stuff (which is being collected at the weekend)
I can barely get into one of my spare rooms as it's full of stuff which needs to be put away after Christmas/taken to the tip this weekend/keeping for DC2

What some people see as a dirty fridge isn't actually that dirty - if she's got mould and old food and what have you then fair enough, but if it's a few splashes of stuff here and there, I wouldn't worry about it.

The only thing I'd be really concerned about would be the batteries, scissors and paracetamol lying about, but again you don't say if they were left out where a child could get them, or if they were out, but out of reach (near the top of a bookcase for example)

If someone came and cleaned my house whilst I was away, I'd be massively offended. Of course, if your sister's home is genuinely approaching something requiring the assistance of Kim and Aggie, then perhaps offending her isn't such a bad thing.

You certainly can flisspaps - I am not one of those types who live to clean.
I Hoover downstairs daily (pre schooler = crumbs and we have 2 cats) / every other day upstairs once / twice a week. The dishwasher is filled and emptied daily. I polish / dust once a week. More often in the playroom. Do the bathroom - 1 big clean and a quick clean several times a week. (house full of boys = piss on toilet)
I make sure my sitting room and playroom are tidy before I go to bed.

But I admit sometimes if busy my house can be messy. If I don't do the above it quickly piles up.

I have a few boxes in the hall way that need to go to the tip @ weekend (but may move them I have friends coming round)

With regard to the fridge being dirty mine can't be because I bake from home and sell cakes.

In my sisters defence they do not have a garage/shed/ boarded loft to put crap in.
And haven't spent a lot on furniture. I love Ikea / buying second had furniture and have lots of useful storage and therefore organised playroom, bathroom and bedrooms.

I know what you mean about levels of tidiness she is not quite on the Kim and Aggie level yet. But I just think she needs help or it will get there. She also spends a lot of time at mine or mums as though she is avoiding it.

Regarding the dangerous stuff I have seen - it has all been accessible to my DSs (2 & 6) will check accessibility now - her DC is more mobile now so they might have started to move stuff.

See - to me, what you do seems like a lot of cleaning (am working on it, but like I say, the choice to be tidier has had to come from me, not from outside)

You could go round and clean up and declutter and make it all fabulous (in your eyes) but unless she has storage or wants to do more, then in six months time the house will look as it does now.

It could be the big difference is that actually, you have a lot of storage so all your things are out of sight, whereas your sister has the same amount of stuff, but nowhere to put it - the issue might not be cleaning, it could be something as simple as storage, as you say.

Just go round and tidy up. My sister's house is always a tip - not so bad as your sister's it sounds, but she's younger than me so I didn't feel the need to pussyfoot, just went round and cleaned and tidied.
I had to babysit for another sister and my now tidy sister said - don't worry about tidying, Harecare will do it for you!!!! I did of course as what else are you supposed to do while babysitting sleeping children?
Ask if she needs help coming up with a rota of cleaning chores. She needn't do as much as you, but things ought to be tidy, washing up done as soon as possible and hoovering and bathroom can be done once a week.

I will add, even with the housework I was doing, the MW I saw at home told me I was doing too much!

I am going to suggest a clear out and I will take stuff to tip/ charity
I am going to pop round there more often and offer to help her tidy up.
I have also been onto other family members to hopefully get some jobs done.
I am very wary of upsetting her as she is quite a sensitive soul and is totally lovely and would drop what she is doing in a second to help me out and loves my DC's to pieces.
I just want to get her sorted so life is easier for her especially since she would like to have another DC.

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Ooh Flisspaps I like the sound of your MW! :)

Ohnana I wouldn't 'offer', I'd do it as a treat thing like another poster suggested. one tip though - don't 'bin' anything permanently in case what you see as crap, she/her DP see as lovely.