I am night training both my children and my house smells of pee

[colditz]

Ds2 not utterly reliable in the day

Ds1 not reliable at night

I can't train one and not the other - my children just don't work like that.

My whole house seems to smell faintly of urine.

Apart from washing things ASAP (not always an option!) and cleaning wherever I see the pee, what can I do to shift the whiff?

It's just a bloody symptom, a sign of how his peers are leaving him behind.

i have NEVER pushed him to be dry at night - my own mother wet the bed until she was 11, I know it can't be helped, but he so desperately doesn't want his brother to stop wearing pull ups before he does.

And I can rattle on about hormone levels all I like but he's seven years old and not very emotionally mature and in his head babies wear nappies, and big boys wear pants and that is that.

See your GP and ask about the nasal spray available for bedwetters. Use nightly for six months and then you have a break mostly bladder will have trained itself if not you repeat the break at three monthly intervals. It's called Desmopressin. Ds asd also used it because he too refused nappies at seven.

I s he a very heavy sleeper Colditz? I think sometimes school knocks 'em out.

colditz - dd was 6 and had nearly 2 weeks of being dry, then months of being wet then one night wet, the next dry and has been ever since.

ds1 was 7 1/2 and a very heavy sleeper. We could change his wet pyjamas and is bed and redress and remake and he wouldn't wake up. He only ever had 3 dry nights in total before being dry totally.

he WAS a heavy sleeper, before he started having the melatonin. Now, as he sleeps a normal amount (was only sleeping about 7 hours a night and was sleeping like a log) he doesn't seem to sleep as heavily.

Which is why I think it might work now - but of course, he has weed in a pull up for as long as he can remember, and maybe has simply fallen into that habit.

I don't know whether he wakes to wee and then does it, or does it in his sleep, but it's got to be worth a try for his own peace of mind (not being overtaken by his brother is very important to him, and I always praise him for trying)

dd1 was dry for a while at 3.5 and then started wetting again (we moved house). We went to the clinic when she was 7 got an alarm which 'cured' her (eventually). She was dry for maybe 9 months before starting again. She's still not dry and she's 12. dd3 is 5 year old sister who has been dry at night for 2 years dd1 is also not abused or being mistreated (except perhaps by dd2 who was throwing coathangers about earlier ). It happens

I have no experience of autism or adhd, I guess that must make it much harder to explain why it's happening.

The trouble with waking them is that, like lifting, it doesn't help them become dry - they just are dry becuase you caught it IYSWIM. Their bodies need to learn to stop making wee at night (that's the hormone's job) and the brain needs to learn to wake them up if then need to wee. By waking them (or lifting them) you're not training the brain to do what it needs to do.

Having said that, I can completely understand why it's better for self-esteem to wake them and be dry.

Have you seen an enuresis specialist for ds1? they might be able to loan you an alarm that might help (might be of limited use given the bedroom sharing though).

Finally, I'm sorry if anything I've said has sounded critical. I know how stressful it can be the strain it was causing us is why we ended up medicating dd1!

he does have some dry nights recently too.

I think the pee smell is mainly caused by ds2 being engrossed in what he is doing and simplly "letting go" instead of getting up and going to the toilet.

Desmopressin from your GP see post above

No, nobody has been critical, I'm over-sensitive on this subject as I feel like I'm always either defending ds1 or defending my decisions regarding ds1 and mumsnet tends to get the splurge of snappiness when I've had enough of gritting my teeth in RL.

Thanks ASD2 will try the GP. round here they won't do anything until the child is 7 anyway.

ooops. Have just stopped ds1's nappies at night (because he wanted to, he's 4 1/2) and have been lifting him when i go to bed. He has been dry every night which has amazed me considering his nappies were always wet in the morning. Should I stop lifting him? Its been 1 week.

dd1 is on desmopressin, has been for 3.5 years now I think. We started using the spray, but they've brought out melts now, funny tabletty thigns that dissolve under the tounge - much easier to take than the spray.

dd1 has also started on proper tablets which we've found even more effective (melts were good for first 3 years though!)

colditz - I know what you mean about having to defend decisions. I've had some stick on here before about using the medication. I know a lot of parents are very critical of it, I was suspicious at first. However, for us it's very helpful

plusone - you're going to have to stop lifting him evenutally. They get heavy you know.... up to you when you do it though

lifting is one way of managing the problem, not fool proof, but it does help manage it. Long term though it won't help anything as you're not helping the body learn what it needs to do.

I understand I've been there still am sometimes ds is now 15 and it's teen issues in a boy with the development of an infant.
It's annoying and heartbreaking in equal measure. Explain to GP that it is necessary for his self esteem and if he isn't helpful see the paed.
A tip for you to get the GP to listen is to make yourself comfortable and watch as ds gets bored and disruptive. My GP can't take the door slamming nor the picking things up to examine them

Hi coldtitz do you think the smell is off the mattresses? Is replacing an option? Iv a friend who had to cause they were constantly turning and leaving out in the garden when the sun popped out which helped alot but still they got too stinky and they left the wrappers on the new ones and cleaned the plastic everyday with baby wipes or disinfectant wipes cause of and they say its fantastic they havnt had any smell since...
With the laundry can you put a bin liner in the linen basket and close it/tie it after you strip the beds till your able to do a load of washing? They have bags you can put linen in seal and throw in the machine and the threads on the sides of them desolve in the wash they keep all the smells in, i used to work in a hosp and we always used them for wet or soiled sheets they are super you never get a smell outa the linen basket and we could have had a few full to the top and still no smell, im not sure if most chemists stock them but any medical supply companies like baxter do and they might be worth a try. We also used a plug in oil burner with a citrus oil (lemon or mangerine (sp?) worked very well but that was usually for other off smells as really the linen was never a problem)
you could also try spraying fabreze on the mattresses and carpets if you have carpets? My ds2 had a tummy bug at the weekend and it was not pretty... I used a little washing powder mixed in warm water and a sponge (not too wet) then wiped off as much as i could with a damp cloth then used some fabric softner mixed in some warm water and vomit smell gone! I dryed the multiple spots as much as i could with a cloth and used my hair dryer aswell... Iv burned my duvet dryin it with the hair dryer before from an "accident" so knew to be careful with my carpet! Anyways hope some of this helps

Omg im so sorry i called you cold titz instead of colditz! Agh shoot me

Sprinkle bicarb over any areas you think are smelly (carpet/mattress) leave for as bit then hoover up

Colditz

DD1 is 6 and not dry at night

DD2 is 3 and 100% reliable at night

They share a room. So I know where you're coming from. DD1 refuses a pull-up (rightly so, IMO) and the advice I've been given by the eneurisis clinic is to NOT put a bed-wetting child in them

WHat I've been told to do:

ENSURE they drink enough in the day (6-8 cups a day - not dark-coloured though)

DON'T lift - but if needed (and helpful) - wake and walk to the loo to wee (this helps dd have dry nights)

Check his morning urine. If it's dilute in colour (not dark and concentrated) it strongly suggests he is lacking the hormone responsible for maintaining night-time dryness

HTH

Colditz I feel your pain, there were tears when both dd2s younger sisters were dry at night before her

Colditz just wanted to say I was in the same boat: ds2 was dry at night long before ds1 and ds1 wouldn't stay in pull-ups -- don't blame him either. You are absolutely right to be doing what you are doing.

After a year of wee every night, ds1 is finally starting to get dry. Here is what we did in the meantime:

I bought a washable bed mat and put it under his sheet. Then on top of the sheet I put a disposable bed mat and covered that over with a cot sheet (lucky I hung onto them) tucked in crosswise. Then if I needed to strip the bed during the night I could simply whip off the cot sheet and disposable bed mat leaving dry sheet and washable bed mat underneath.

It made for a lot of washing. But I don't regret it for a minute because it helped keep up ds1's self-esteem.

Colditz, totally feel your pain. Ds1 is just 7 ds2 is just 4. Ds1 has NEVER been dry at night, ds2 cracked it at 2. Very hard for ds1. Oh and we now know that he has a residential trip in yr3 so we need to crack this before next year. Joy.

I got a waterproof cover for the mattress from Boots so it isn't washable; we have those on all other beds but because ds1 wet the bed so often sometimes twice a night, we sacked it off.

So we whip the sheet off, wipe the mattress cover with zoflora that is in a spray bottle and use the dry part of the sheet to dry it, then chuck the sheet into the bath.

We have a spare duvet already in a cover and a spare pillow all ready to go for those middle of the night changes as he has wet the duvet and the pillow before now.

They are cheap Matalan duvets and can be washed and tumbled in a domestic washing machine. The winter one is a microfibre one from Next but although it can't be tumbled it dries within 6 hours just in the house over the banister.

Any accidents on the carpet I used washing powder dissolved in warm water. Didn't seem to leave any lingering smell and I have a very sensitive nose since having children.

Best of luck.

Colditz - there is a chance............but there's a high chance he's not the only child.

Made them both go to the toilet at 10.30 ....both beds dry this morning ...

woo!

Great

It's what I do with dd1 (don't need to wake dd2, she wakes herself if she needs a wee. Clearly the hormone has 'kicked in' for her)

I have been told by the clinic that if waking early night (ie before 10pm) keeps dd dry for the rest of the night then the evidence suggests she's probably lacking the hormone - which may lead to treatment with meds to help

I would say keep waking DS to wee and see what happens. If it helps him have dry nights and helps with self-esteem then why not!

Hot white vinegar is good at neutralising any smell;it's worth a try