Question about autonomous home-ed

[noodle6]

I'm new to home-edding - and new to autonomous ed. I've already reserved and/or ordered 3 books about autonomous home-ed (John Holt's "Teach your own", Terri Dowty's "Free Range Education", and Alan Thomas' "How Children Learn At Home") but still waiting for them to arrive at my doorstep, and I already have a few questions about autonomous ed which have been on my mind for some time.

I wonder if by initiating or suggesting activities (like asking "Do you want to go downstairs to do some drawing with chalk?", or "Do you want to help me prepare supper?" etc. before DD has even asked or shown an obvious desire to do so), would it no longer count as autonomous?

Here's another one - say for instance, DD wants to know how something works. She asks first thing "How does it do that?" And then I'll tell her as much as I know, but then admit at a certain point that that is all I know and it is insufficient. So I say perhaps we should go on a computer to find out. We then go on the computer to do some research on the subject. Since I was the one who came up with the idea of going online to research the idea, does that still count as autonomous??

Space is limited in our place, so its actually quite hard, if not almost impossible, to do up rooms to make them more home-ed friendly. I think it would be nice to have an Art room, a TV room, a study room, etc. but that is just impossible for us. So the table where they do all their work (craft or sometimes, for reading or studying) is also in the same room as the TV and the computer. Sometimes my daughter would rather play games and/or watch TV (i.e. childrens' videos/dvds or cbeebies/nickjr/nickolodeon) than to do any sort of table work (crafts or reading or writing etc.) Problem is she ends up playing the games or watching TV for ages and then afterwards she just looks lethargic and spent and doesn't seem up for many things anymore. Even my 3 year old daughter (who appears advanced for her age) gets into the games/TV mode and this happens too - actually she becomes quite irritable when she gets like this.

I'm not sure if I should ration their screen time. I used to do so when they went to school/nursery but that made sense to me then because they spend so many hours away from home everyday and it seems such a pity for them to use up whatever little time they have left at home to spend with us on games or TV. Now that they are home-edding, should I just let them do what they want - play as much games or watch as much tv as they want - and hope that they will self-regulate their screen-time in time?

I know from past experience (when they were schooling) that sometimes they can and do get tired of watching screens and they will go for days on end without ever reaching for the games or the tv remote.

I'd like to add that its not so much the games and TV that I'm concerned about, but the after-effects they have on my daughters when they spend a considerable amount of time on them - and they usually do if they start right after having breakfast, because then it would really go on even past tea time... Its the tantrums, the lethargy, etc. that are really making me question if I should ration them or not.

Tbh I wouldn't stress about whether something is strictly autonomous or not - just go with the flow. I was autonomously home-educated, which meant that I just did my own thing most of the time, but my mum would still initiate activities, such as baking and days out and so on. It's a natural part of being a parent to engage and involve your children in things, to me, the autonomous bit comes from not trying to make it consciously "educational", just have fun in each others' company and learning will happen without any real effort.

Definitely limit screen time - it's addictive! I can say that as a fully grown adult who should have gone to bed 90 minutes ago, but is still lying on the sofa with the laptop.

Autonomous can mean more or less what you want it to mean. Including doing a structured course, as long as the child wants to do it rather than being coerced into doing it. It does not matter where the ideas come from. For example, you might suggest something that your DC would not know about - when mine were younger, I used to get the list of sports classes from the leisure centre and we'd go through it to decide what they would like to do. They would not know what some things were and I'd have to explain (or we'd get a book out of the library or go on the PC).

What "autonomous" looks like is likely to change as your DC get older. I was always suggesting activities (such as paiting, cooking, etc.) and some things I would put a lot of stress on - e.g. you can't have a party unless you invite people and mummy is not a slave, there to provide entertainment. So DC would make invites, party bags, a pinata, help with food, etc. It was never a problem - it was fun to do these things (and I also prepared games and a cake - the DC did not know everything that would happen).

For me, autonomy is about being with the DC and knowing what they are interested in and capitalising on it (but not in an "in your face" way). So, you go on a trip and they show an interest, so you think of ways to follow up. If they don't want to, then you leave it - they may come back to it later.

My DD was into Pocohontas at 5yo, so we dyed cloth with onion skins and made a tepee and costumes. We didn't do any writing in particular and reading was mostly me reading to them, curled up on the sofa.

If it works for you as a family to ration screen time, then do so. Can you talk to your DD about how she behaves when she has a lot of screen time? Can you agree to watch a specific programme or DVD and then switch off and do something else afterwards?

When xh lived here, he would sit and watch TV a lot and DC would do so also. However, I found that they would regulate themselves and now we only have it on for specific things. As you are new to EHE, you may find that your DD is testing to see if she really can do what she wants - the novelty may wear off. But if you need to control it more, then do so - this needs to work for all of you.

People (inc John Holt) often suggest that you should start doing something interesting (e.g. a craft) and then they will come and bother you to join in. Just make sure it is something you are happy for them to join in.

"Now that they are home-edding, should I just let them do what they want - play as much games or watch as much tv as they want"

Noooo! imho educating autonomously does not mean you let the little ones rule the roost. You're still the parent and you still know what's best for them (at least some of the time!).

I can't really add anything else to SDeuchars' brilliant explanation (esp as I'm not planning on being fully autonomous), but your DCs have got to learn how to function and play a positive, contributing part in family life, and that will probably mean compromising on things they might not want to do (ie housework, not watching loads of TV as it makes them crabby etc).

We educated completely autonomously, and didn't limit screen time, finding they did limit their time in front of it eventually.

We tried to live consensually and with mutual respect, rather than with compromisie, without us as the parents dictating, but by reaching agreement together.

I certainly did talk to them if something they did caused me concern and they took me seriously as they knew I did them.

I also found that other interesting things offered, would easily get them away from the screen and having lots of opportunities available (but they knew they could choose not to go to) meant they would go for days, sometimes weeks without TV. It is still the same now they are young adults. They watch only the programmes they are interested in, and we never see them just spralled (?sp) in front of the TV watching soaps or with no purpose.

Like SDeuchars I'd get listings of all sorts of activities locally, as well as our local home ed newsletters, and offer the choices to see what they wanted to do.

At first I found it difficult to accept that they would choose not to attend something, (as it was also difficult to accept when they didn't want to go and research something further sometimes-especially when I was dead keen!) but I learned to listen to their reasons and accept them. Usually they would give new things a try and seem to be that way still, being open to new opportunities, giving most things a go at least once. They also then became very good at choosing their priorities, as they knew our budget was limited.

Living consensually also meant I could say, that there was something I wanted or needed to do as well, and they would go along with it.

It wasn't always like this. We used to parent with us in charge, making all of the decisions. For us that lead to children who objected to not being listened to. By the time our older child got to teenage years, it was very hard work-awful at times actually.
For us consensual/autonomous living works so much better. The teenage years with our younger ones, has been wonderful, such a difference from what we had before!

You are the one who knows your family best and will find what works for you. It took us quite a while to get to the place that works best for us. I think dh and I have been on a bigger journey than the children did.

Autonomous education and living rightly means different things to each family.

Ok, by the strict dictionary definition of 'autonomy', it's not autonomous if you suggest things to your child. But not suggesting things to her is neglectful IMO. Children, because of their age and inexperience of the world, can't know they might want to know about something if they don't know it exists!

I prefer the term 'informal' or 'natural' learning or, even better, consensual living ie. it's not about education, it's about living together and respecting the children in the same way you respect your partner. Our family is a team and we work together. If I suggest things to do, it's not because I think it'll be educational, it's because I think the children might enjoy it. If they say no, then we don't do it. If they say yes, and then ask to do it again, then we do it!

I see... I suppose I was too hung up with the meaning of the word "autonomous"!

The best thing about HE is that you can do it in exactly the way you and your children want. By all means go the fully-autonomous/consensual living route (although the alternatives do not mean you do not respect or listen to your children ).

But only do that if it is what really suits you - not because you think you have to in order to do it 'properly'.

I've spoken to my daughters about how they got crabby after long sessions of games or television. They both acknowledge it.
But I haven't actually rationed their screen time since then... and I found that if they look like they might be on the brink of over-doing it, I'd just suggest if they'd like to do something else like a craft activity, or go out for a walk, or something... Normally they'd say yes to my suggestion which then tells me that perhaps they were getting bored with the games/tv but just remained sitting there because they got a bit "zombied" out by all that screen time... and all they needed is a little suggestion from me! So that's worked out pretty well - I'm glad that "suggestion" isn't actually contrary to the spirit of autonomous ed!

Another thing (unrelated to games/tv) I've noticed ever since embarking on the autonomous ed route is that sometimes my daughter would abandon a project after spending a considerable amount of time on it, and deep down I think I would have liked to see her not give up... even though who's to say she won't pick up on it again a week/month/year later, from where she'd stopped. But I'd just not say too much about it. I'd say its fine, and move on. I think she knows what I'd prefer but she knows I'm trying to act in the spirit of autonomous education, so she quite happily just moves on.

Knowing my daughter, she absolutely hates anything that smacks of "lesson" - she starts getting fidgety and restless if she thinks I'm "going on" too much, so I think I'm doing the right thing by not interfering. Its a learning curve for me at the moment - learning to "let go" if my daughter does something with her work that deep down inside I actually hoped would have gone another way... But it does get easier with practice.

Your DD sounds like my DD1, noodle. I think you are doing wonderfully - your DD is a very lucky girl

I struggle now at 30something to know when I've spent too long in front of a screen, so feel some limits when younger might help- I also read Set Free Childhood, which opened my eyes. We now don't have a TV at home (we planned to watch stuff on iplayer/dvds, but rarely get around to it)
I find I'm quite irritable when I have to interrupt my screen time, and my DDs behaviour deteriorated to constant screaming when, after warnings and negotiation, we turned off the TV. We moved house, leaving the TV and sofa behind- rather than removing the TV and having the obvious gap in our lives.Rather an extreme step I admit, but that's how it happened for us and works well. My DDs are only just starting out HEing though, prob younger than yours as you mention school.
Oh, then does that mean you are the 'de-schooling' stage? The change in environment, from what I've hear/read sounds like it can be tough to figure out.
I don't have any fixed ideas on education styles- does it have to be someone else's definition of autonomous,or can you just adapt whatever to suit your family (inc. you!)?
good luck with it all, sounds interesting!

mumofkandj We went for about four years without TV...we only got it back this year so that DS would have something to talk to kids at school about (DS has suspected ASD and needs all the help he can get when it comes to talking to other kids)
No TV is surprisingly easy to get used to, I now realise just how much rubbish is on lol, if it wasn't for DS being at school I would probably get rid of it again.