Reasons for home edding

[slyvia]

Nosey Question really - but for myself have just found that my son, 9, having been to 2 schools now has suffered at the hands of peer pressure and disruption in the class and general unhappiness at how boring (desk based) school is. Just wondered what other people reasons were

I still think that 30 odd kids with a teacher all day do not get anywhere near enough care, guidance, attention and help that they need )especially younger age primary kids !) Its all too easy to off load kids in to state care so we can work or whatever (me included in the past!) and for many people there is no (choice (financially for eg) Little kids could be in schol for far less time and come out with the same knowledge/sills etc... It would be better if schools offered part-time places in early years. I think 30 odd hours a week at school is far too much time away from a home environment.

Interesting. With ds- who's gone all the way through school to Y8- I've found personally that that sort of 'label-and-stuff' peer pressure really comes to the fore in secondary school and not in your average inner city primary. There is definitely a pressure to conform at primary but this seems to be more to do with being able to play football/liking Barbie etc (gender roles?) than having/wearing stuff iykwim...

As for trying not to be too influential to your dcs- I only realised that this could be a problem quite recently when I gave an opinion on something to DD then said as an afterthought- "that's just what I think. When you're older you might think something completely different"- DD had obviously not thought that this was an option and was delighted at the idea

...now I have to carefully monitor everything that comes out of my mouth and put a rider on it if necessary!

I agree with cory. I'm afraid that mine would meet a very narrow band of people, if it was left to me. I am set in my viewpoints-as shown on here. I don't want my DCs to see things the way I do, I want them to make up their own minds. I want them to meet atheists, sikhs etc-or just people who see simple things in an entirely different way. I want them to meet difficult people and learn to deal with them. I am a huge influence-I think it helps to have other influences too.
I don't want them to be self centred and think they are the centre of the universe to learn things entirely if and when they want to learn them. I want them to start something and finish it, even when interest wanes. I want them to understand that some study is boring, but the end result is worth it. I want them to understand that other people have equal needs and they might need first turn or they might not be chosen for something they particularly want to be chosen for. That you can make mistakes and they are an important part of education, that you learn by them.

If a teacher sets up a dentists surgery in the classroom it has much more depth. It is for more DCs so it is worthwhile making the effort-it can also be used next year. If you do it at home, I wouldn't invest a lot of time in as to quote 'dentists one day, hospitals the next and post offices the next', DCs at home would exhaust it much quicker because they haven't got the sheer numbers of DCs who all bring something different to it, so that they can play with one group and have an entirely different experience the next with a different group.

You may get this at home if you have imaginative DCs but many need someone else to keep it going.

Schools do actually take into account the DCs they have! Very often lessons take a different slant from the way you start off!

'when I gave an opinion on something to DD then said as an afterthought- "that's just what I think. When you're older you might think something completely different"- DD had obviously not thought that this was an option and was delighted at the idea'

I do think that this is so important and they need to know it from an early age. e.g. I eat meat-but if DCs don't want to, there is no reason why they shouldn't be vegetarian or vice versa. So often the parents think something and the DC is expected to follow. There is a big difference between encouraging and controlling.

piscesmoon: "I should keep well away from the National Curriculum if you think it is so narrow!"

I couldn't have put it better myself!

Today our way home took us past a hospital. Instead of walking round it I asked the children if we should walk through it (very bear hunt!) so we did. It was SO interesting - we saw people getting in and out of ambulences, being pushed around in beds and wheelchairs, Drs rushing everywhere... there was a big fishpond and the kids liked the pictures on the wall outside the children's ward. "Why is there a post box in the hospital?" "Why do they have a shop?" etc etc.

I can't think of a better way to introduce them to real life than by actually doing something, and in a way that means (God forbid) if they actually do ever have to go to hospital, it will be that little bit less threatening. (Ditto the dentists, ditto the drs - they've been going to these places since they were born because if I go, then they come with me. You are not going to top that in a classroom.

"You are not going to top that in a classroom"- yes that's very true. I find that HE is spontaneous and flexible and more able to fit each child's needs. But there are other things that- with the best will in the world- you won't be able to top out of school.

As someone with some experience of both HE and school I can see that both have distinct advantages over each other and neither one it Absolutely Right. What you have to hope is that in the long term you've picked the best option for each one of your dcs.

I really hope we have- but I can see that any one of my dcs may be complaining to me in ten years' time...still I suppose that's part of what being a parent is about.

ain't it?

I completely agree, SHJ, I was just talking about that specific example. One of my HE friend's sons has just gone to school to do his GCSEs because she says he thrives on the competative atmosphere.

I'm normally v careful not to be anti-school (and in many ways I'm not, I liked lots of things about it), most of my friends' kids go to school. But our conversations aren't as frank as they are on here, so I'm not as defensive in RL!

I know what you mean robberbutton

...I find I actually avoid talking about HE to my friends from the DCs old school and try to steer them towards chatting about school instead- I sort of think that if I talked to them about how FABulous our days (mostly!) are they'd think I was Showing Off

Schools are now allowed to get away from the National Curriculum robberbutton-it has never been liked by teachers! That is what I meant about you keeping away from it-it will be dire if you don't do a bit of lateral thinking with it (I agree that you are not likely to use it-but don't assume that that is what schools are doing).

They do do a lot of HE when they go to school-it isn't as if you just delegate.

I may have my calculations slightly wrong since I have just done it very roughly, but I would say they have about 1170 hrs a yr in school which means they have 7590 at home, even if they sleep for 12 hrs a day they still have 3795 a year at home which is more than double. They have all the advantages of home but then they have all the things that schools give-mainly access to other ideas, people to bounce ideas off, friends and the sorts of things that you can only do with larger numbers.

Sorry-very badly written in haste-hope it makes some sense.

Your post did make sense, and I wouldn't be worried if our children did ever go to school. But I do think school takes the best hours of the day. Aside from all the mundane activities that swallow up time, everyone is often tired in the evenings and just want to crash in front of the telly (I know I do). Plus that time is even less if you use extra curric activities, after school clubs, holiday clubs etc etc.

I sound sure on here- I'm not, believe me. Just doing, in fear and trembling, what seems to be the best thing, to the best of my abilities, at this point in our lives. It's fantastic, most of the time and I feel very lucky to be in the position of having the infomation, the inclination and the circumstances with which to do it.

If they go to school then you don't have to send them out to after school clubs, holiday clubs etc-in fact you don't want to (or I didn't)! They are free just to go to something that particularly interests them- or not to anything-if they so wish.
You don't have to drag them off to the supermarket, your dentist appointment etc-you can do it while they are out.
I am pleased that you are enjoying HE robberbutton and that it suits you. You are obviously passionate about it so it will work for you. I just think that you should stop looking at things like the National Curriculum and shuddering 'poor DCs',when the schools are not following it in the way you imagine-or stop looking for propaganda when teachers are hard working people who love DCs and want to get the best for them.
(If you want to complain about the curriculum and propaganda look to the government who know nothing about it but have an agenda-teachers do a good job despite them)
I have nothing against HE, other than the assumption that it is best for all DCs. I believe that I am giving mine the best by sending them to school-I haven't sent them because it is the norm and lets me off making any effort. I bet I have done more than many HE parents over the years -having made a whole reading scheme for dyslexic DS-cars, games,wrote my own phonic based books for him. You don't wave them off in the morning and then refuse to talk to them, play games, cook etc because 'the school should do it'. As I see it the school complements what I do and thankfully takes over the parts that I don't want to do at all-like how to use an apostrophe-how to measure angles etc.

sorry cards not cars.(although we have made cars and raced them down a track-woodwork!)

Piscesmoon, for such a pro-schooler, you do spend a lot of time on the HE boards! LOL.

I actually agree with quite a lot f what you've said. Schools can be wonderful places and some teachers are very creative with the National Curriculum. Learning at school can be fun. Sadly, this is definately not the case with all schools and all teachers. I know because I have over 10 years primary teaching experience. I have worked in one exceptional school with a very liberal headteacher, I have worked in another good school and also countless very undesirable ones.

I am considering HE because of our catchment school. It has a high turnover of staff, no green space, and my children would be some of a few number who have English as their mother tongue. I do believe all these things would really disadvantage my children tbh.

My DD goes to playschool 3 mornings at the moment. She comes home very tired and I find her behaviour has changed since going. Sometimes I would call her 'depressed'. Every morning she asks not to go, but I encourage her etc and now I would say she is resigned. Maybe she feels I have stopped listening to her needs.

I will apply for schools and see what options we get, but I have absolutely no issue with HE'ing. I do however feel its important to have a good HE community on your doorstep.

Piscesmoon, you're DS obviously attends a good primary. From my experience, even 'good' schools teach to the test etc and often even 'good' teachers can feel they have no real creative control.
I loved teaching...education is my passion. Some aspects drove me insane though. Class teaching is not nearly as 'inclusive' as it should be, you should see the numbers on the SEN lists, that will tell you how narrow and limiting the NC is, despite wonderful home corners!

I sometimes think these school/HE arguments are pretty pointless, because at the end of the day, its all about the individual child, the family, or the area you live in. It just depends on your circumstances totally.

I am not anti-school. I will not stand in the way of my children going to school, if that is what they wish. However, right now, as the parent, I have to do what I think is best, after the many hours of research I have done into the options.

Yamba wrote:

I sometimes think these school/HE arguments are pretty pointless

I think they are totally pointless. They mostly surface when someone says "What do EHEers do about X?", answers are given and then some pro-school person pops up and says "Yes, but EHE is unnecessary because that can happen in school". Mostly, I don't feel it helpful to say "so what?" - although that's how I feel. If I choose to home educate, then I might be interested in discussing the education industry from time to time but I do not find it helpful to be told that school is the easy answer. Is it any wonder that EHEers get defensive and snappy?

SHJ wrote:

But there are other things that - with the best will in the world - you won't be able to top
out of school.

What are those things?

Piscesmoon wrote:

I may have my calculations slightly wrong since I have just done it very roughly, but I
would say they have about 1170 hrs a yr in school which means they have 7590 at home,
even if they sleep for 12 hrs a day they still have 3795 a year at home which is more
than double.

a. Getting up and out: 1 hour * 195 days = 195
b. In school: 6 hours * 195 days = 1170
c. Getting home: 1 hour * 195 days = 195
d. Homework: 1 hour * 195 days = 195
e. Dinner with family: 1 hour * 195 days = 195
f. Sleep: 11 hours * 365 days = 4015

I make that about 2600 hours at home. For many children, a, c and d will take more time than listed. f may well be more for some children, especially younger ones.

Piscesmoon wrote:

They have all the advantages of home

I don't think they do. It takes people time to switch between environments and tasks. I have personal experience of this as (teenaged) DC moved between xH and me. This means some of the 2600 hours are spent on the transition. Time at home is also spent on making sure that school is "serviced". Children who are tired from school are less likely to take advantage of the home in s similar way to EHE children.

Piscesmoon wrote:

but then they have all the things that schools give-mainly access to other ideas, people to bounce ideas off, friends and the sorts of things that you can only do with larger numbers.

Piscesmoon, it is starting to become really offensive that you keep citing these things. You are, in effect calling the EHEers on this board liars. Our children also have access to other ideas, people to bounce ideas off, friends and the sorts of things that you can only do with larger numbers.

I sometimes think these school/HE arguments are pretty pointless, because at the end of the day, its all about the individual child, the family, or the area you live in. It just depends on your circumstances totally.

Exactly.
I may seem to be on HE boards a lot-I just happen to go on education-in general a lot. I'm not calling HEers liars! Of course HE suits some DCs, it doesn't suit others-we are all different and one size won't fit all.
I wouldn't comment if it was all the positive side of HE-it just always happens to bring in the damage that schools do to DCs. As we are all different I don't think that school damages all DCs or even the majority of DCs.
I can't even remember why I commented in the first place! I think that I gave a list of reasons-which no one actually disputed-except to add to.
I would expect that the list of reasons for HE is as long as the people doing it!

Just responding to the original question for now: My original intention was just to delay my older daughter's school start by a few years. I didn't like the idea of her spending many hours a day in an academic environment, when she loved running around and playing with other children so much.

At the time I assumed there would come a time when home education was no longer right for her and then she would go to school. I vaguely thought this might happen when she reached seven or eight.

By the time she was seven, it was clear that she was happy and learning well at home. I had also seen and heard about a great many older children for whom HE was continuing to work well, which was inspiring. My assumption that school would become necessary gradually evaporated.

My daughter has always enjoyed home education but has always wondered whether all those people who told her what she was missing by not attending school just might be right. Just before her tenth birthday she tried a term at school and is now certain that it isn't a place she wants to be.

Mine tried a term at about the same age, Saracen. She also decided she didn't want to continue.

When I de-regged grandson, I hadn't initially intended on HE. None of the schools [better ones] wanted the kids from the estate where we live.
The following year, I was told that as grandson is categorised as a 'looked after' child, I could get him into the school of my choice, but there were drawbacks - the distance and the cost. I would have had to cover the transport.
I know what the statistics are for Looked After children are and was determined that the education system wasn't going to let him down as it had already with the problems he already had.
Im anti a system which categorises a child and put a label on them even before they have completed Reception Year. I wasn't going to take the risk of it happening again.
Same with secondary school. He doesn't want to go and I just think 'If it's not broke, don't fix it'.

I am not anti-school (DS is currently at the local school), in fact I am probably quite pro-school but.....I am looking into withdrawing DS as I just don't think the system suits him.
I actually spent part of today in his classroom. They are having a week where parents are invited in for a number of sessions. I was disapointed at how few parents made it in today (I counted 8 for the whole school ) I know many parents work but even so this was a poor turn out!
The lesson I sat in on was literacy and it was all pretty familiar, bringing back memories of my school days (nothing scary there lol). The thing that really stuck out for me was the way everything had to be done in time slots. The kids had quite a while to brainstorm words/ideas (they were preparing to write poems on racism). Then the whole class had the chance to give input (teacher writing all ideas on the board). They were then given five minutes to copy down the stuff on the board.
Now all this seems fairly inoffensive until I watch my son struggling to write everything within this five minute slot. This was to be the basis of the work done later.
The classroom was very noisy which was obviously distracting to DS (even the teachers say he is much better in smaller groups). I am not saying a noisy classroom is a bad thing by the way, just that DS finds this atmosphere difficult.
This is just an example of why I feel DS would benefit from HE. He does have trouble doing things quickly, he doesn't always 'get' things first time yet the teachers have little time and have to move on. DS already has extra help but we are finding that quite often when he brings home homework he has no idea what he needs to do. We find ourselves having to 'teach' a tired child the things he didn't take in during lessons in order for him to do what should be a quick simple task (any extra help we can give soon becomes counter-productive because DS has had enough of being taught during the day).
He tends to drift off at school, I can't be sure if it is just too difficult or if he is bored. What I know is that he reads all the time and has learned huge amounts exactly when he has wanted to, about the things that interest him....eg. space, history (he loves his horrible history books but even before getting these he read all about egyptions/castles and many more topics), environmental issues, biology (mainly the human body but also plants and animals) and more things than I can remember at this moment lol. All this is going on at home and I frequently get comments from teachers that he already knows loads about most new topics they start in school. Yet he is at the lower ends of most things when tested at school and is clearly struggling there.
Ideally I would like DS to suddenly find school life a bit easier and not to have to take him out but I have to take responsibility for his education, after all it is the parent's responsablility whether the child is in school or not. I have to recognise that, given his extra needs, DS may well be better off out of school, with no time constraints and one to one support.
I can't help thinking that school is not going to help my child reach his full potential. I don't know if HE will be better for him but I doubt it would be worse. I think I owe it to him to try....if it doesn't work out he can always go back to school.

stuffedmk, sounds like he'd really benefit from HE. what does he say about it though, have you suggested it to him yet?

He has gone from being keen to hating the idea and everything in between.
He is very much a creature of habit though so any kind of change does him in for a little while.
He has no formal diagnosis but is probably ASD most likely Aspergers, school wanting to pursue statement, partly because they think he would benefit from a smaller secondary school than the one he would be going to....not because the local one isn't good but because of the stress on him of soooo many people.