autonomous he'ers and bedtime......

[dandycandyjellybean]

odd question I know, but I have allowed myself to become less and less routine oriented (as is my natural personality) in order to further facilitate ds autonomous education. Ds is in nursery at the mo 5 mornings a week but only coz it's a brill, totally play based place with excellent outdoor stuff; but at the end of term will be all ours again!

What with the advent of extremely light nights, allotmenting till all hours and generally socialising etc, bedtime has become very fluid and with this ds is finding harder to settle on more 'normal' nights. I wondered to dh whether we should just go with the flow with regard to bedtime, or note what all the authorities say about lack of sleep having an impact on intelligence.

Is this an experience any of you other autonomous he'ers have had; any advice, etc?

We've had phases when we've had loose bedtimes and phases when they're stricter. I'm afraid, to my disappointment as I love a relaxed, free lifestyle, we've found that everyone in the family is happier when bedtimes are regular

We also have four children, so it takes 1.5h at the very least to get all four settled and asleep, which would mean a very late bed for me and DH and/or no time together at all if we let them stay up later - and we can't cope with late nights which also impacts on family life.

They don't go to bed very early anyway - we eat together with DH when he gets home at 7pm, then he takes all four upstairs and gets them ready for bed. DD4 then comes downstairs to me to fall asleep feeding while I play on the computer and he reads to DD2 and DD3 in their room while DD1 reads in her room. Then she loves to spend some time with him so he goes and has a game of chess with her once the two middle girls are asleep. He's back with my by 9pm - 9.15pm which doens't leave us much leeway.

I'm sad that being all flexible doens't work for us, but it makes me love camping trips all the more, when they children just fall asleep where they stand and we don't have to be at work the next day!

Thanks for your quick replies, and I have to say I totally endorse what you say. Ds has never been one of these kids who copes well with not enough sleep (some of my friends kids seem to have regular late nights and are fine - ds is a grumpy grinch with one late night!) but I wondered if his 'body clock' would switch 'eventually'. As it is now, it doesn't matter what time he goes to bed he is up at the crack of dawn - blackout blinds notwithstanding!!!!

I don't really want to do it; I just wondered if it was a natural consequence of being much less structured in life generally. Dh and I would have no time together at all if we did switch; finding time for...a'hem all those important things would be almost impossible! It's just been so hard for me to let go of all my rigid routines in so many other areas (but very rewarding) it makes me doubt myself when I suppose I know routine is really necessary. Thanks all - am off now for some 'time' with dh

Well I know that I suffer mentally if I don't have some sort of pattern to my days and weeks so I guess it follows that children would too. In other, more child-led cultures, the daily pattern is still always the same. I think it's natural.

our children all wake at different times - indicating that they all have different needs for sleep - but they all wake at the same time for them each day and they all go to sleep at the same time for them each day and they really do seem to benefit from it all being the same.

Everything in between waking and going to sleep is totally autonomous though, unless it's a day when there are groups on that we are committed to.

I think a lot depends on your child, tbh.

I have DD1 who has never slept much despite my best efforts, from a baby when she gave up naps at about a year, to now when she is usually in bed after me. I know she should sleep but if I sent her early as a young child she would still be awake hours later anyway. As a result, she always had a bedtime that shocked my friends!

Then DD2 came along and I realised the inability to get DD1 to sleep wasn't actually my fault! DD2 always has and still does need lots of sleep and early bedtimes. If I ever allow her to stay up much beyond the norm, we both regret it as she usually works herself into hysterical crying. It's more of a pain than DD1, actually, because it makes it hard to go out in the evenings for anything and be quite as free as we would like as she gets herself into such a state.

So I am something of an anomaly with bedtimes. I have one child who, despite being not far off 11, has a strict "in bed by 8.30pm" rule, and another who is often still swanning around at midnight.

I wouldn't feel that being autonomous means you can't set a bedtime, if that's what suits your child and your family.

we try to live consentually. Bed times are often suggested by an adult. If a child is in the middle of something, then of course they finish it first; bedtime can take anything from 3 minutes to an hour of stories and snuggles.

For children who find it hard to drop off, a magnesium supplement can be a good idea (magnesium malate grinds up and can be hidden easily in food).

Also, judicious use of melatonin. For children who under-produce melatonin, a dose every couple of weeks (or I know some people who use it regularly once a week) helps to reset their clock. The problem with every day is that it then stops working in the end, and the family is back to square one.

We also suggest bed if we can see that DD1 is tired, but she is free to say no!

Our evenings usually look like this at the moment. DH comes home at around 6, we have dinner between 6.30 and 7. Then DD1 usually wants to play with DH or read while the baby is going to sleep. After the little one is asleep I go upstairs at around 10pm to read, DD1 usually comes up then and goes to sleep (it takes just a couple of minutes when she decides to settle down) around 10.30.

She then wakes up at around 9 most days. DD1 goes to bed earlier at the weekends and I think that the late weekday nights are so that she can spend time with DH.