Those of you who HE large/young families - How do you manage?!

[Psychomumma]

I have 4 dc under 6.5: 2 dds, 6.5 and 4.5, and 2 ds, 2yrs and 4 months. Both girls have had a term at nursery a while ago, but I firmly believe in HE, for myriad socio/psychological/educational/moral reasons which would take far too long to detail...

Unfortunately, my personality (levels of patience/noise tolerance/physical strength & energy etc) means I actually find it really hard to remain calm and 'nice' to my children, particularly when I have been up every two hours in the night breast-feeding the 4-month old, and the two-year old is having a full-on hysterical tantrum on the other side of the toilet door, because I have DARED to lock him out for 2 mins...

Whilst - in theory - I would love to spend lots of time playing/reading with my elder DDs, the reality is that almost all the time the toddler is around is spent with him trying to destroy any game they might be playing, or grabbing any toy that anyone else shows any interest in - and then I just shout a lot, and collapse on the couch when he finally has his nap, with no energy left for the girls....

Sorry this is long; I know there are those of you out there who HE larger families than mine, yet somehow remain sane and good-humoured (most of the time...we're all human!) So if anyone has any practical advice/moral support/encouragement, throw it my way!

I would send them to school to do things at their own level and then you can recharge your batteries and do all the fun things that you want to do-the time in school is very short.

agree with piscesmoon

or you could see HE as a job and get the youngest children into childcare for a few hours a day so you can educate the older ones?

Hi there,
I can't help out with advice as I only have 2 boys, 8 and 12. They pretty much amuse themselves at home so I actually have quite a relaxed pace of life at the moment.

I do know several large HE families though and admire them greatly because I think, especially when they are that young, it's a lot harder, energy-wise. I suppose it's just a case of juggling, to use that awful word .

I do know one lady with 12 kids who Home-eds them all!!! I think the older ones help out with the little ones though.

I wish you all the best and, hopefully, someone else will be able to give you some better tips.

Sorry, I thought the op said she firmly believes in HomeEd. You don't need to spend time "educating" the kids like they do in school anyway. Education isn't just about sitting down and "teaching" them. They have to set it up like that in schools as there are so many kids altogether.

Do you have any local HE groups near you Psychomamma? That helps too, meeting up with other families.

At school they will be in a calm atmosphere with someone who loves teaching and is gearing things especially for them ,and will have had a good nights sleep and not be short tempered. They will not be having to look after younger children at the same time or have them spoiling games etc. At the end of the school day (early afternoon)everyone is refreshed and pleased to see each other.

Not sure why you're posting here when you are obviously against H.E

Op was asking for advice from other Home-edders regarding HomeEd. Seems a bit strange to be suggesting she simply bungs them into a school really.

Also, I love the dreamy scene you paint about the "calm atmosphere with people who love teaching" lol. Where do you live, Little House on the Prairie?

Ignore me-I shouldn't do it I just can't resist! I love the schools in my area and the teachers do the job because they love it!
I just wonder why someone who has a wonderful theory about how it should be done but lacks sleep and energy and is consequently short tempered and can't meet the needs of different ages even wants to try!
They could have the younger ones to themselves and do things at their level and then have the energy to cope with the older ones.
However-it is naughty of me-Friday night and a glass of wine!-I will sit on my hands and not respond further. I will leave it to genuine advice from HeEdders. I just happened to click on unanswered threads.

"At school they will be in a calm atmosphere with someone who loves teaching and is gearing things especially for them ,and will have had a good nights sleep and not be short tempered. They will not be having to look after younger children at the same time or have them spoiling games etc. At the end of the school day (early afternoon)everyone is refreshed and pleased to see each other."

ROFLMAO!
Well you sure as hell don't live near in our LA!

I simply don't recognise anything you have written here.

psychomomma
I think you would get value in talking to the folks on the Early Years HE email support list simply because everyone there has young children and home educates them and will offer practical advice, support and sympathy with your choice to home educate your children-and not just come out with the 'send them to school' response.

"but lacks sleep and energy and is consequently short tempered and can't meet the needs of different ages even wants to try!"

now that DOES sound very much like two of the teachers in our local middle school!

I'm a friend of Annes, nice to "meet" you

Thanks for the helpful replies . I do, occasionally, feel perverse for persevering in an endeavour which does not come easily/naturally to me, and wonder if I would not be doing the best thing for my children to pack them off to school.

However, I really believe that, as long as I am doing them more good than harm (and that sounds much worse than it should!), the absolutely best place for them is 'in the bosom of their family', to use a v. old-fashioned phrase. At the end of the day, no matter how grumpy I may be, and how calm the teacher may be, I love them, and the teacher does not. In fact, I think that part of the reason I get so...whatever... is precisely that: I care so much for them, and scrutinise the effects I have on them so critically. Conversely, teachers may remain calm, detached - uninvolved...not bovvered...? - because, at the end of the day, they don't/can't really care that much for a set of 30 kids they'll see for 9 brief months, until they 'move up'...

Anyway, rant over . And I'm still in need of practical advice as to how to have four young children at home while keeping us all happy!

Ignoring the antihomeed feeling on here.....

I have three boys ages 7, 4 and 8 months. We have home edded from the beginning so I have been through the toddler phase with ds2 while trying to "teach" ds1 and will be going through it all over again soon. I too bf all through the night and am always sleep deprived.

What I find is key at the ages of your children, is to be out and about a lot. There is no need for sit down type work at that age (some would argue ever). They learn so much frmo outings: I live in central london so get to make use of the many mnay museums, but even if you live somewhere else, you can use local parks, etc especially now the weather is getting good. The key is talk talk talk talk to your kids about everything and they learn so much.

I also made use of nap times a lot. When the youngest is sleeping, we do sit down work, games etc. Also, if you want to do sit down stuff with the older two, start getting the 2 year old used to doing his own "special" things. Keep a box of things that you only get out at those times and sit him next to you, but away from the other two (or one at a time) so you can keep an eye and hand on what he is doing while also helping them.

Lastly, we found board games a great saviour. The 2 year old is obviously too young to play most, but what we started doing with ds2 from age 2 is having him on a "team" with me or dh. We would show him what to move etc. \This would keep him interested and also had the added advantage that by age three he could play most simple board games with us.

HTH

Thanks, IlanaK. I'm pretty laid back when it comes to 'teaching' them anything, particularly at this age (altho have some pressure form DH about attainment levels, etc ). As you say, so much is 'learnt' through conversation, and they love going out - anywhere! I do try to utilise the toddler's nap-time, but the house-work is always looking at me, making me feel guilty about making more mess baking with the girls, or whatever...

I think I just need to get through the next 12 months, and after that, when the 2yo is hopefully out of his 'I'm going to be impossible' phase, and I'm getting a decent night's sleep, life will seem better. Until then, roll on the summer!

I'm smilingbecause I've always had this little dream in my head of a big house with 7 or more children, and now me home edding all of them and us all sitting round the make-believe fire and telling stories in the evening and standing around a big piano and us all singing every afternoon Of course the children in my dream are all perfectly behaved make-believe kids! I still get a twinge of envy when I see large HE families. But now I know the truth! If my two trying to constantly trying to murder each other is a little taster, I can see I should ditch the fantasy, quickly!(still get broody)

Also wanted to say Psychomumma, I take my hat off to you for doing all that. It would be so easy just to give up and put them in school!(as some have thoughtfully suggested) I remember having so many of those sleepless nights with youngest dd.

Sometimes I went to bed with him attached to my nipple just so I could get some sleep! I felt so guilty about housework. HV made me feel awful about it when she visited. In the end I got so exhausted and wound up, I ended up wailing like a mad woman in the doctors surgery! (who annoying said he could do nothing, and it would pass and besides I was doing the country a favour) When I look back I wish I hadn't tried to get everything right and had just done what your trying to do and enjoyed my baby and my dd and stuffed everything else.

As you say, after a year or so things will settle a bit. You're doing the best thing keeping them at home!(short paitence aside) I couldn't wait to get dd into nursery but after no sleep, trying to get dd ready for nursery at 9 made me an impatient/bad tempered walking zombie! Wish I hadn't bothered!

we have dd1 whos just turned 6, ds whos just 3 and dd2 whos 17 months we have just started 'tot school!' with the younger two and they love it, our older daughter does a max of 2 hours 'sit down work' a day, but lots of living life and going to groups, art, crafts, latin, sports, trampolining, swimming, gymnastics etc, far too many to list.

my advise is be organised and we find doing 5-6 week block organising works best for us, reading lots and having a focus mat! my 17 month old loves to have a piece of paper and a crayon!

we kind of stummbled into HEing after a bad experience in school and have not looked back, when we took dd1 out dd2 was only a few months old and ds was just 2! we had no problem with the teacher not enjoying her job, but more with them putting their heads in the sand and pretending their school had no problems!!! (keeping the damn stats up!)

we really love HEing it is a whole lifestyle and has changed our whole family for the better! x

Hello, jumping in here. I HE 5 children, 11,9,4,3 and 2 and we manage fine, in fact I enjoy it, though I am not perfect and it doesn't come naturally to me either thinking about it. We are pretty autonomous although I ask for an amount of english/math work each day. I don't teach except when I am asked for help. We tried school with the older two, twice, and they were never really happy, except for the first couple of weeks at the second try.
We also fell into HE when DD2 was 4. She was basically bullied out of reception class and diagnosed with stress at the time related to her experiences. We have had to find our feet and learn what HE is about- it isnt about recreating a school in your own home, it's about allowing children to grow and thrive in their own way, to follow their own thoughts and dreams, to become the people they wish to become. To be able to live as themselves without feeling the need to bend to fit in with others, to be strong enough to stand for what they themselves believe in.
If it truly is what you want out of life for you and for your children then you'll manage. Try occupying them all with the same thing where appropriate. A lot of HE (in our experience) is done without writing a thing. Getting out and about, even if only to the park or beach is good. Let them loose in a secure area where they can run riot.
We have found that it is silly to try to split them up. If the older ones want to do paperwork or reading an the others want to be with them they share, either by giving paper and pens or they read aloud to them.
It isnt easy, it isnt a rosy dream style life, it is darn hard work but the rewards- 5 happy children and a semi serene mother make it so worth it. I'd love a life like the big 16 child family in America (whose name slips my memory at the moment but they were on telly a while back) but in reality, without tv cameras and a script, life just isnt like that.
lol, now I rambled again. Sorry.

I home ed our 12 year old dd who has SEN and also have a 1 1/2 year old.
There are no typical days and are autonomous with the choices although dd likes to read or set herself little projects.
Our 'classroom' is mostly outdoors (dh and I run a farm) so discussions or practical work are tackled there eg we are working on a food and nutrition project which entails soil types, growing the food from seed, plant requirements, symbiosis, vitamins, storage and cookery. Dd concentrates well with this method and feels relaxed with it.

Our house is chaotic as we are not in much to tidy but one room is kept as a playroom/ study area. Little House on the Prairie it is not!
DD has become far more confident with her work and is thriving with the one to one attention and we cope with the toddler's constant demands too. She goes to scouts once a week plus Riding for the Disabled twice a week so is having social contact outwith the farm. (We are very isolated).
Dh and I are zombies come the evening but somehow things work and the children are happy.

This is an interesting thread - we are thinking of HE next year, DD is almost 5, DS is 3 and we have another baby due in July. I do wonder how I will manage, if we go ahead at all.

Some thoughts (and I am pro HE) - but could nursery be an option for any of them? My DD is in a wonderful play based Kindy 3 days a week (although I would prefer just 2), and TBH I don't have aproblem with the philosophy of the Kindy, or the amount of time she spends there, although I do haver isses with the philosophy of schools (especially in the early years) and the 5 day week.

So for us, Kindy/nursery will help if we HE next year, as DD will be home, and DS will have two days at Kindy leaving a full 2 days with just DD and me (and baby) to do some more pen-and-paper-and-book based learning, if indeed she is interested in that (I suspect she will be).

If we HE I hope we will get all the 'busy' work done easily in those two days, and then have the days when DS is home to just go out and about and see thinbgs and talk to people and do painting and what not.

Would there be any chance of doing a weekly child swap with another HE er one day a week? Maybe you could have their little ones one day, and they could have yours another? Or you could have all the older ones one day and do something geared towards their age and interests, and they could do the same the next week? I think that would be a great arrangement as it would be interesting for the children to learn with other kids and adults once a week as well.

Another thought -IMHO I find that planning really helps me keep calm. I know this is not the way many HEers want to operate (and totally understand the reasons there), but for me, I know that I will need to plan an 'activity' (whatever that may look like) each day to help me to feel on top of things and help me keep calm and focussed. I wonder if you might find it helpful to plan something for each day of the week on a Sunday, and also to give some thought as to how to involve or distract the little ones?

So eg, Monday=gardening. Older kids plant some seeds (or whatever), and if you know the younger ones are going to sabotage that, then you could plan to give them each buckets and send them on a 'treasure hunt' around the garden to keep them busy and happy.

Sorry to give advice as we don't even HE yet - these are just my preliminary ideas as to how I will manage if we go ahead (HEing vetrens, feel free to tell me if I am being naive here!)

Psychomumma - You could be me!

I home ed my brood. My oldestdd will be 7 in June, next dd will be 6 in August and 3rd dd will be 3 in July. I also have a 3 week old baby boy.

DD1 has speech problems, so needs extra attention with that.

DD2 has hearing problems.

DD3 sounds just like your toddler at the moment. She is going through a destrucive phase. She wants to play the same games as the older girls but usually ends up destroying them. She craves attention and I have noticed in the few weeks prior to ds being born that her behaviour has elevated a fair bit (still trying to decide the best method of diffusing situations)

and

Ds- well he is obviously very little, but he wants to feed constantly. Doesn't really like to be put down and doesn't sleep very well at night.

I find at the moment the best way s too not be too organised (sorry to oppose other mumsnetter). It is so demoralising to plan a whole heap of activities and then not be able to get them done.

I believe n trying to make learning play based and fun. Allowing the girls to follow their own interests and encouraging them when they need it.

I certainly dont have all the answers and am struggling with my patience levels also ( i dont cope well with lack of sleep).

But learning doesn't have to be 9-5. My dh helps out where he can and is very good with them. The older grls also stay over at nannies about once a week which also helps with stress levels.

dd3 goes to nursery once a week for 3 hours. We started doing this as she was so clingy and I felt she needed to learn to be away for a bit. She really lookd forward to the time she has away from her siblings. When she is 3 I plan to make use of the govenment funding and she wil do her 15 hrs (i did this with dd2 and it really helped me get thngs done with dd1).

My email is [email protected] if you want to chat to someone who is in the same boat as yourself.

You already know you are dong the best for your children and that is great you recognse that. Just dont try and set urself unattainable targets. Chldren have an amazing capacity to learn from allsorts of media. DD1 has been watching night in the museum and is now throughly engrossed on being sacajewa (indian women who helped Lewis and Clark). She dresses up as her, and roles plays her life and learns about history at the same time. Tho she doesn't actually associate it wth learning at all (which i think is fab).

Sorry for all the typos, as I have said I am sleep deprived myself. Anyway you know where I am if you want to chat.

Pink

I have four DCs aged between 6m and nearly 6y. We are completely autonomous in our house. Our aim is that every child is happy and curious and if that's happening then I feel that it's working. If they're curious then they'll be learning and that's all there is to it.

I try to get up about half an hour before DH leaves for work so I can rush around getting all the essential housework done for the day. I try to fit in makign hte supper in the morning when things are peaceful. We tend to go out in the afternoon either to a friend's house or to a museum (they're free round here) or library or park or wherever the children want to go. Other than that we just do whatever we want to do. Games that get destroyed by the toddler easily get played in a room with the door shut, or I do something esle with the toddler, or they wait until DH gets home and there's an extra adult.

Not having lessons or workbooks or worrying about making sure some maths and literacy get done each day is the key, I think. DD1 learnt to read on her own and I can see all four of them progressing quite happily without dedicated time to any particular topic so I feel very confident in the autonomous approach. We don't separate learning activities from life at all - we do science experiments because the chidlren have seen them on tv or in a book and think they look fun, not so they learn science IYSWIM (although obviously that happens! I'm just trying to illustrate taht they do learn all they need just from living a full life).

psycholmumma, I wonder if, more than anything else, your youngest two are just at a hard age. I think it IS hard to HE with very small children around, I also think that age before they can sit up, and when you are permenantly sleep deprived is really really hard. And two year olds are hard work too. I have three and I am NOT calm and nice all the time, so god knows how it works with four!

I think we as parents are not always as honest as we could be about how often we lose the plot with it all, and so assume that everyone else is choreographing dances inspired by nuclear fission while we are sobbing with exhaustion in the toilet .

Its just I seem to recall things being very similar for me about a year ago, when dd2 was tiny, and now they are so much better (I do only have 3 though!)