What should I do about ds?

[2kidzandi]

Hello everyone, feeling sad today I'm really concerned about first ds10. Sigh. When I took youngest ds7 out of school a few months ago, ds10 seemed like he was relatively happy still plodding along to school. He had never expressed a real dislike or school refusal before. But he has since expressed reluctance to go to school, saying it's boring, teachers don't listen etc, and now he seems increasingly resentful towards me and dad (dad doesn't live with us) He has been stroppy with me,(mouthy, answering back, storming off in a temper if I tell him to do something) "suddenly getting ill" when I need to go out or do something important(I kept taking him to the doctor until I caught on that he was switching the illness on and off) He caught a bug beginning of January which lasted a couple of days, but pretended to be still sick for a week and a half. He has been playing up with dad especially, refusing to go to Karate club with him. I don't know what to do. Dad is still against idea of withdrawing him, being ds10 is very social unlike ds7 and has lots of school friends, and in year 5, getting good reports, great maths and class teacher (typical, none and then all at once) I am confident with ds7, but the idea of two children is difficult for me when I think about how different they are. I have just about got to grips with ds7 needs academically, socially, and as he is. Ex made me feel unsure of myself, abilities. If I do it and it doesn't work out for him I could be messing with his longterm future and happiness.

I am feeling increasingly guilty about the imbalance in terms of what i'm giving to each child. Ds7 is getting more of me than ds10. In addition, as I see ds7 getting more confident and happier out of school I feel really really guilty about ever sending them to a place that seems to have made them so unhappy. Ds had a really great day in the park today with other HE kids (the first, since he usually hates to go out) and I thought about how he was at school and I nearly cried to think I put him through that. Now I have another problem.

I also feel guilty giving so much to ds7 because I had severe PN depression when he was born and ds10 suffered from a real lack of attention for a good couple of years. I think he always feels that I give/have given more to ds7, which is not true, but that is the way he sees things, and this confirms it for him. Now if I give something - a biscuit or a drink or something trivial to ds7 and not to him he complains. I have to be careful not to talk about the wonderful things we do when he's at school because of his perception of it.

I don't know if ds10 is just jealous, or if he didn't like school all along and was burying his feelings or what. But I want us to be happy again. I just feel like I would want more support to HE 2 kids. I never thought i'd feel that way, but I do. No one's on my side. Why does everything seem uphill today?

Sorry if none of this makes sense, it's really late and i'm over-tired. If anyone can make sense of this jumble I'd really like to hear their thoughts. I suppose i'm trying to work out whether this is just a cry for attention, because of things in the past with Ds7, or a genuine desire to be HEd too and feeling not listened to, as still having to go.

It sounds to me, without wishing to make you feel worse, that DS1 is quite jealous of all the attention DS2 gets, which is his own perception not reality, I think you could start with on the weekends spending intensive quality time with DS1 doing something that he loves, if DS1 has a later bedtime making sure that you spend time listening to him etc. It is your choice whether or not to home ed DS1 but it may be something to consider as it probably won't involve to much extra work than you do already, Their dad isn't at home so it is really your decision whether or not you want to HE DS1.

The issue your DS1 may have with his dad could be a seperate issue entirely and he may have simply lost interest in the Karate

Sorry if I am over simplifying things but why don't you ask ds1?
Wait until a calm moment, and ask him what he would like to do about schooling.
Is there some way you could arrange to have a little time for just you and ds1?

From what a friend of mine says, who has done some research into school refusal, this is rarely just a cry for attention.
It does sound like your son is doing his best to get you to listen to him IMO.

You said he seemed to like school and had lots of friends. If he has watched your ds2 being home educated for a couple of months and has met with home educated children, he will have a reasonable idea of what home education entails. Given these two points, as he is telling you what is wrong with school for him, I really do think you need to ask him what he wants.

I know of some siblings of home educated children, who have the choice and choose school and some who have chosen to be home educated like a shot.

It may be that he hadn't expressed a dislike or boredom about school before because he didn't know that home education was a legal viable option-or because he thought him going to school was what you wanted and he wanted to make you happy/didn't want to make things difficult for you (this has recently come to light from a none home educated sibling of a home educated child in a family who are friends of ours.)

My children are very different from each other and facilitating a different education for each of them has been challenging at times-but for me, not so challenging as getting unhappy children into school every day!

For us, autonomous home education has been the right way to go, so each child could concentrate on their own interests coming together for group activities and meetings.

Is the school very over subscribed?
Could you take ds 1 out of school for a term or so and then review how things are going?

Hope this makes sense.

I know the other bonus for me in this situation would be that we could carry on home educating without the needs to be still be bound to school times and terms-not having to get up early in the morning/not having to dash back to get a child from school/being able to take holidays and breaks in term time.

Have no idea if this helps at all, but hope you find the right way for your family to move forward.

Thankyou for your responses, they are both quite helpful. Colonelcupcake, i'm sure that jealousy is a part of it. I did take a special weekend out where it was just me and him and I spoiled him, sent ds7 to dad and took him out, treated him and talked to him, but after a couple of days it was back to the pattern of sulking, pretending to feel ill etc. Trying to give him more attention on the weekends is difficult as they often go to dads and in any case ds7 is a distraction.

Julienoshoes thank you. Yes you do make sense. I have asked ds1 what he wants. He says he wants to stay home and last night he cried asked why he couldn't be HEd! I guess i'm just worried about the sudden big U turn in his attitude and what the true motivation is because of past issues. For eg, he still gets to school at 8 0'clock so he can have some time in the playground with his friends. I really don't want him leaving school and then resenting me later because he only wanted attention brother has, etc. Although what you say about him possibly always going to school because didn't know option was there does make sense. Also, we haven't spent much time "socialising" as we're relatively new to the HE circuit and ds7 doesn't feel as great a need for it, so I haven't really seen or met many HE children around ds10 age yet.

Taking him out for a term is something I hadn't thought of as a possibility. But I wouldn't want to do stuff school is doing, and if I took him out, I think that's what they'd expect. That's why I dismissed idea of flexi-schooling. Based on the Heads reaction when I removed ds7, I can't see her bending over backwards to accommodate me. Shes had 4 children withdrawn to HE in 4 months and tried to talk me out of it. And the school isn't over subscribed tends to be under slightly.

If I HE ds10 it has to be for the right reasons. It would be great not to have the difficulty of term/times etc, but only if we're all happy.

He has just come back from school and declared that his day "sucked" and was "six hours too long."

I didn't mean to withdraw for a term and do schooly stuff, I agree, home education is a different thing altogether. You don't need anyones permission or thoughts on this, you can just do it.

I meant withdraw completely from school and give it your best HE shot and if he likes it then don't even look back. If at the end of six months it hasn't worked out, then the LA has an obligation to give you a school place and if the last school is under subscribed then they will have room to take him back won't they?

If you tell them you are home educating then 'they' don't have a right to expect you to do anything in particular.

Bet he doesn't want to go back though!

I'm not surprised he goes to school at 8am to meet his mates. That doesn't necessarily mean he wants to be in school, it may well mean he wants time to be free to be with his mates before the boring stuff that he has to endure for six hours starts.

If it were me, I'd give home education a chance (though that is obviously what I would say)
He can go back to school if it doesn't work out.

Bet it will though.

It very empowering to realise your parent listens to you and respects your choices. Children so very often feel that they have no choice and no control over their lives.

If you did take him out of school, then it's up to you (and him) what you spend the time doing. If it then did turn out that HE wasn't the right option for him, he could still go back to school - the fact that he hadn't done the same things they were covering in school for that time wouldn't stop him getting a place and picking up from where the rest of the class had reached. if you think about it, that happens all the time anyway when children change schools - they may never do one topic which they missed, but that's not hugely important at this stage.

Flexi-schooling is tricky, because you can only do it with the cooperation of the head, so you have to do things their way.

But withdrawing to HE, then applying for a place a few months later, is different - while you are HEing you are not answerable to them, and they don't have any right to "expect" you to do things their way.

Oh thank you, Julienoshoes, AMumInScotland! I see the practicality of what you're saying. Julienoshoes you're so confident. Could you bottle some please and send it to me? I really am suprised at myself. I would have told anyone else to just go ahead and do it, but for some reason now that the dilemma presents itself I find myself questioning. AMumInScotland, you say I could do what I want if I HE. But family members (who ironically give little or no support child sitting etc)would definitely expect me to keep him up to par with school academically speaking incl. Ex grrr. I still get daily enquiries from them about what ds7 has been doing, let alone ds10. Actually ds10 wouldn't really object to doing some formal work, but I am not sure I want to turn into a Teacher with him IYSWIM, which I think I would have to eventually as he wants to learn more sophisticated stuff, and ds7 appears to be more a kineasthetic learner needing to build, touch, make stuff and walk around etc. I want to make sure I can cater to both styles of learning. Worried I'll fail. I guess i'm still feeling like I have to be as good as school. Which I know doesn't make sense even as I type it!

Also will face going back to work at some point in future and thinking how hard that might be with 2 at home.