Yet another government review of Home Education

[AMumInScotland]

government review

They're just going to keep on at this. We have 4 weeks to respond!

Not read through it yet myself properly, but according to another forum the questions are:

1. Do you think the current system for safeguarding children who are

educated at home is adequate? Please let us know why you think that.

1. Do you think that home educated children are able to achieve the

following five Every Child Matters outcomes? Please let us know why you think that.

1. Do you think that Government and local authorities have an obligation

to ensure that all children in this country are able to achieve the five outcomes? If you answered yes, how do you think Government should ensure this?. If you answered no, why do you think that?

1. Do you think there should be any changes made to the current system

for supporting home educating families? If you answered yes, what should they be? If you answered no, why do you think that?

1. Do you think there should be any changes made to the current system

for monitoring home educating families? If you answered yes, what should they be? If you answered no, why do you think that?

1. Some people have expressed concern that home education could be used

as a cover for child abuse, forced marriage, domestic servitude or other forms of child neglect. What do you think Government should do to ensure this does not happen?

If he was 5 years old my answer might be different but, given that he is 14, I would ask him how he'd like me to help (I only say I might not suggest that for a 5 year old because a 5 year old might be less able to articulate what they want).

Tougher guidelines to ensure that at the very least children are being given a grounding in basic literacy and numeracy so that they can go on to further study if they desire?

To ensure that they have opportunities to interact with their peer group?

To ensure that they have the opportunity for physical exercise?

Just a few very basic things which really are not being provided here. As I said this is not an attack on HE but as the system operates now it is easily possible that parents can withhold these things from their children.

I absolutely do not think children need curriculum or goals or testing etc which is why my own Dcs do not attend a school that uses the NC or SATS.
I do not believe the governement should decide the exact parameters of what each child should or should not learn.
I think this should be up to schools, teachers, parents and children themselves. I think that common sense dictates that most of us will identify the common educational needs without the state advising us - reading, writing, functional maths, - and plenty of other things that the ministers deem unnecessary - appreciation of art, a sound knowledge of history, how to look after ourselves and the world we live in.

However for those children who are not in school and whose parents choose not to or cannot offer a suitable education it is very easy to avoid detection especially if you live in an LA that has had it's hands burned a few times.

With regards to talking to him. It is impossible to see him without his mother present. He has no independence from her in any way. His experiences of life are so narrow that to ask him what he wants would be an almost impossible question for him to answer.

Yes, litchick, all children are real and equally worthy of our care. I make no distinction between the right of a HEed child to a proper education or the right of a State schooled child or the right of a privately schooled child.

In law, as you know, it is the parents who are responsible for ensuring their children receive an education. I'm just as concerned about children in failing schools, or children whose schools have failed to meet their SEN, or who have failed to ensure that the children remain safe and well on their premises, who have failed to ensure that children are learning, are stimulated and happy and interested. I'm, if anything, even more concerned about those children because most of them come from families who know of no alternative, or who can't imagine managing an alternative. And I'm more concerned about those children because you and I and everyone here is paying for their education via our taxes. And if that educational provision is failing, then that's not only that child's present and future down the drain, it's also our ££££s. The state schools have a moral responsibility to get it right, what with spending other people's money to provide a service.

I'm not yet persuaded that changing the law so that HE families lose their privacy and educational autonomy is going to achieve what it is supposedly setting out to achieve: a guarantee of a suitable education and a guarantee of no abuse within an HE homes. You seem very pro- the proposed changes, Litchick, can you put the case that they'll have the desired effect?

Litchick, LAs cannot use common sense are a barometer for whether an education is acceptable or not because as you say it is too easy for parents to win the argument as things currently stand. Therefore I feel that some guidelines are needed to give LAs more authority to act when it is necessary.

Schools do fail children. Parents fail children. We need to put checks in place where we can. To say that reform of HE is not needed because schools also have problems is frankly irrelevant.

But WHAT checks and WHAT guidelines? What will solve the problem of parents failing their children educationally without also curtailing the freedom of parents to educate children according to their own philosophy?

Unless the law is to be changed so that parents are no longer responsible for the education of their children, I'm still confused about what sort of reform is needed.

I think a major problem with any list of what a child should be able to do at a given age is that children are so different. Also, some HE children may have SEN such as dyslexia but do not have a diagnosis.

So, you could get a 10 year old who can't read. How do you show whether that is because they are being failed, or not? And what about a child who has been in school for most of their life, but then taken out of school? There are illiterate 14 year olds in the school system (without SEN). If they were taken out and HEd for a year, and still couldn't read, would you say the parents were failing?

Almost any set of guidelines for expected achievement will have genuine exceptions, as well as failing parents.

So, you end up back in the situation where it comes down to the judgement of the person who is asking.

If you want LEAs to have a definition of the kinds of things which might or might not constitute a suitable education, then that could probably be written out for them. But it would have to be suggested things to look for, not a checklist to be ticked. And many LEAs seem unable/unwilling to do anything other than tick checklists.

Onwardsand upwards, this is not a task that I can take on. I am not an expert in education and have not criticised any educational methods. In the case of the child I know no education is being provided. What do you feel would be appropriate? Something very definately does need to change though. This boy in my family is surely only one of many.

Seeker, lalalenny and one or two others - I agree that it's not helpful to interpret exercises like this as "persecution" and there's some pretty paranoid language in some of these posts.

Do those who have had such a knee-jerk negative reaction to this believe that no aspect of systems used to govern/implement the law should ever be reviewed? If everything is fine with the way things are, use the exercise to reply to that effect. And maybe be creative in your answers to Q4 about whether LAs should do more to support HE families.

I was planning HE for ds1 until I got a job overseas which starts before he's school age anyway, so very sympathetic to the reasons and objectives of it. But assuming that the State is out to get you for this doesn't do anyone any favours, least of all the tiny, tiny minority of children whose vulnerability might be exacerbated behind a veil of parents claiming HE.

And now I'll run for cover.

Amuminscotland, the problem would be that the guidelines would not need to be so vague that a clever clogs like chicklit could argue their way out of them.

Isn't this an attempt to eventually force the NC on all children?

Up here in Scotland the law and the guielines are slightly different from England. Our set of guidelines contains the following -

In their consideration of parents' provision of home education, authorities may reasonably expect the provision to include the following characteristics:

Consistent involvement of parents or other significant carers.
Presence of a philosophy or ethos (not necessarily a recognised philosophy), with parents showing commitment, enthusiasm, and recognition of the child's needs, attitudes and aspirations.
The opportunity for the child to be stimulated by their learning experiences.
Involvement in a broad spectrum of activities appropriate to the child's stage of development.
Access to appropriate resources and materials.
The opportunity for an appropriate level of physical activity.
The opportunity to interact with other children and adults.

Would HErs in England be happy with that sort of guidelines for LEAs?

Bubble - they'd have to get it into independent schools as well, and I don't see that getting through, as the whole question of independent education is a can of worms that no goverment (labour or conservative) wants to open up.

I like the 'appropriates' in that list, AMIS

What I'm wary of is a SATS style use of 'appropriate' ie. A child is 'failing' if they don't reach a certain level as defined by the govt.

SATs

Part of the "terms of reference" for this review is to "Map existing practice and consider the effectiveness of different practice ? including identifying best practice - in England and elsewhere in monitoring home education from an Every Child Matters perspective;" so I think they will be looking at what happens in Scotland anyway. We don't have "Every Child Matters" outcomes, but we do have "Curriculum for Excellence" which has similar aims for children during their education.

AMIS. What will DS1's trial session with Interhigh involve?

Do we agree then that guidelines are necessary and that these need to be suitably specific to prevent parents from being able to keep children at home but not educate them? Whatever guidelines are drawn up some people will not like some aspects of them but that will be the price for protecting vulnerable children.

I can understand why you don't like this. But to disgree is saying that the most important thing is that you can raise your child as you choose. That other children will suffer as a result is unfortunate but ultimately a secondary consideration.

There are already guidelines for local authorities. www.dcsf.gov.uk/localauthorities/_documents/content/7373-DCSF-Elective%20Home%20Education.pdf

Personally, I do not feel constrained by the guidelines we have up here, though in reality no-one has tried to apply them to us so I don't know how rigidly they are applied

Bubble - for DS the only trial session was just to make sure the PC and headset were set up right and to go throuh the basics of the Instant Messaging system. I don't know if that's what you mean?

Lalalenny I would ask the question whether this child is being educated autonomously. If he is, then no NC will be followed and he will be left to discover his own interests, enabled and to to a lesser extent guided by his parents.

You don't provide much info (for reasons as stated) but argue the point that the child has been failed.

Failed by whose standards though....

At 14 unless he has serious LD he should be able to access learning by himself, rather than be reliant on others to guide him.
If he does have LD then what are your expectations of what he should be achieving, are they realistic for this child?

He may well be unhappy with his education, but surely if the LA are visiting and conversing with him, he has had the opportunity to express this view.
Certainly if others have expressed concerns then I would have expected that, at his age, the LA would express the desire to speak to him by himself if he was agreeable.
A written complaint to the LA sounds as if it is in order, but if the inspector is satisfied that the education being provided is suitable to his needs then I do find it hard to understand where your concerns lie without further information.

Socialisation is not a part of education although obviously the majority of HE'ers do work very hard to ensure that their children have plenty of opportunities to play with other children etc.
Having said that I know of lots of children both schooled and non-schooled who don't have many friends through choice.

I'm not saying there is nothing amiss here, I'm certainly not saying that all parents of HE children do a sterling job, but there is always another side to the story and another explanation to be had.

We are going in circles. The current guidelines are too vague. Parents can successfully challenge LAs to easily and many do not even try to apply them as a result, muminscotland has confirmed this.

You are choosing to ignore my point that current regulations are not satisfactory and reform is needed as evidenced by what I can see within my own family.