Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Home ed

Find advice from other parents on our Homeschool forum. You may also find our round up of the best online learning resources useful.

Original poster

How do I get rhough to my mil?

60 replies

AbbyLou · 04/01/2008 11:29

Hi all. I don't want to open a can or worms here but could really do with some advice. My dh has a half sister who is in Year 7. For various reasons she was 'educated' at home for Y4 and Y5, returned to school for Y6 and is now back at home. The trouble is my mil seems to do absolutely nothing with her. She has no idea of the curriculum an 11 year old should be studying. She is still buying books from Smiths for Y6 and working through them for Literacy and Mathematics. That's all they do apart from the odd bit of History or Geography. Dh bought his sister a book of Science experiments you can do at home with normal household stuff but the book has lain untouched on the shelf. They hardly ever go out and just sit around at home all day. It makes me so cross that she can het away with this. How can it be right? I am a teacher myself (Y1) so I am perhaps more frustrated than most about her lack of education. Mil doesn't seem to realise that she is sending her daughter now a path to the dole because she has no education. Dh has had to agree not to talk about it with his mum because they always end up arguing. She just can't seem to realise what she is doing. Do you think I am being harsh here or am I right to be concerned? I know there is an association for home educators to join and dh even offered to pay the subscription for her but she said she doesn't need it. Please don't jump on me for this. I am not questioning home education at all and I know from friend's experience that it works very well for some children. However, surely it need a bit more work on the parent's part?

OP posts:
YummersBrandyAndMincePies · 05/01/2008 10:34

i thought home-schooled children had to be assessed regularly to make sure they're getting a satisfactory education? 3 of my cousins were home-schooled by my aunt until they reached secondary school age, and i seem to remember talk of inspectors. mind you this was in the late 80's, early 90's, so it's going back a while.

CharlieAndLolasMummy · 05/01/2008 10:42

ah, I think that these sound like very legitimate concerns actually. However-they seem more like parenting issues than anything specific to HE. This may be where my confusion has come from. HE-wise she is actually doing more formal stuff than a lot of us. But if she is really spending most of her time watching tv when no activities are being provided-if she really doesn't have much self-motivation-I think I'd see that as a problem really.

One thought-how long has she been out of school? It is pretty common for a kid to go through anything up to a year of vegetation before becoming an autonomous learner.

Oh but I am mean re the tv, not only do my kids watch very very little (and that mainly because I accept that tv is a conversation starter among kids, and they do a lot of "after-school" activities and so are always meeting new kids), but I have also put the tv right at the top of the house so that everyone who wants to watch it has to climb lots of stairs

CharlieAndLolasMummy · 05/01/2008 10:44

re inspection. Bascially, no they don't. But this kid would probably pass any such inspection anyway tbh, she is clearly doing quite a lot of formal stuff, there will be records, etc in the workbooks.

CharlieAndLolasMummy · 05/01/2008 10:47

x posts

it sounds like you are doing the right thing here.

as I say, I can see the concerns re the parenting, I really can.

Original poster
AbbyLou · 05/01/2008 10:48

C and L she went to school YR to halfway through Y3. She teh spent Y4 and 5 at home, went back for Y6 which she loved and is now 1 term into Y7. She has had a lot of toing and froing.

OP posts:
Original poster
AbbyLou · 05/01/2008 10:49

Sorry 1 term into Y7 at home.

OP posts:
SueBaroo · 05/01/2008 13:38

I don't think anyone has been aggressive, AbbyLou. Aside from the links you've been given and CALM's excellent advice about the relationship, it really is difficult to know how to advise you.

You say MIL believes everything she is told - it can't cause any harm to give her the links to organizations like EO. Maybe she is lacking in confidence and just needs to build up a support network.

BraceYourselfMavis · 05/01/2008 14:34

I think everyone that has responded to the OP has been extremely helpful, and actually rather restrained in the face of some very obvious criticisms of their life choices.

juuule · 05/01/2008 14:57

Just wondering, Abbylou.
If you work full-time and you live 2.5hrs drive away from your mil how do you know the details of their day to day life? Do you visit them often?

Original poster
AbbyLou · 05/01/2008 18:03

BYM whose life choices did I criticise exactly? I have said all along my problem is not with HE but how this particular person approaches it.
Juule I know because they tell us what they do all day. When we were there last week sil had a friend over and her friend was moaning about school. Sil said she was pleased because she could just watch tv all day.
mil admitted that a lot of her time is spent watching telly because she doesn't know what else to do.
Fwiw I have passed on today some of the websites suggested. She doesn't have the internet at home so says she will look when she can.

OP posts:
emmaagain · 05/01/2008 19:31

Wait a sec...

"I really hate going to school, it's so booooring"

"yeah, it's cool being Home Edded, I can just watch TV all day"

Perhaps not literally true that she watches TV all day?

And perhaps "What did you do today" (says Dh as he comes in the door) "Oh nothing much" say children (mother splutters wildly at the injustice)

And perhaps "What did you do at school today?"

"Oh, nothing"

Unschoolers - those who don't believe that workbooks and curriculums and looking-like-school-at-home is a valuable educational experience - might be quite defensive when teachers, professionally invested in the school model, complain about whether an unschooled child is being properly educated.

Bottom line is: is SIL happy? If so, then the details of her daily life are really none of your business.

juuule · 05/01/2008 19:45

I was thinking much the same things, Emma.

AbbeyA · 16/01/2008 07:05

AbbyLou, you are right to be worried about your SIL. You asked a question, have not critised HE at all and had very aggressive replies from people who have insisted that they are not aggressive! Instead of taking your worries seriously you have been told it is none of your business!
All the people replying are doing a good job themselves but there seems to be a conspiracy of silence that won't admit that some HE is very poor.
I think you need to motivate your MIL and try and get her to join a local group and look at EO on the Internet.

juuule · 16/01/2008 07:47

"very aggressive replies from people who have insisted that they are not aggressive!"

I haven't read anything aggressive on this thread. People who know what they are talking about have given their time to help.

"Instead of taking your worries seriously you have been told it is none of your business!"

Have you read all the thread?
Although the day to day education of her niece is none of Abbeylou's business unless she is actively involved, Abbeylou was informed of the option to speak to the LEA if she really was convinced that HE was harming her niece more than school would. It has also been suggested to her that she become more involved in her niece's education and help rather than criticise.

Saturn74 · 16/01/2008 12:32

"but there seems to be a conspiracy of silence that won't admit that some HE is very poor".

Oooh, there's a conspiracy of silence?

I'm always the last to know.

How exciting!

AbbeyA · 16/01/2008 13:27

I have read through the whole thread juuule, I didn't look for it, I came across it by accident and read it with mounting incredulity but decided to leave well alone! However I lay in bed and thought about it and thought Abbylou needed some support for the bad knocking she got! I have just read the whole thing again to see whether I was mistaken, the closest anyone gets to admitting a problem is that it is a parenting issue and not an HE one, which I can't understand because the parenting issue is there all day long.
Abbylou has the gut feeling that things are not right, she very specifically says quite a few times that she is not questioning HE at all and in fact knows cases where it works well. She tells you that the poor girl is doing ghastly workbooks (wouldn't expect even school children to do them).She says that she can't get her head around the fact that the MIL is not giving experience of anything. Now, Abbylou is not wanting her to sit down with timetables etc but she is expecting stimulation of some sort, and interest and joy. She is told that she must ask the SIL, it may look like nothing to outsiders but you can't possibly tell. It is perfectly OK to go shopping ,watch TV all day because she is deschooling (not quite sure why as she has hardly been to school in the last 4 years).Amuminscotland puts in a sensible point that you don't have to send a child to school but you have a legal requirement to educate.
The thing that depresses me is that not one of you will say that this may a be very poor example of HE and the MIL needs help.Is Abbylou supposed to stand by and not help her SIL because MIL must know best? She is not trying to get her back to school, she merely wants her to have what the rest of you are supplying for your DCs.
I have been a bit surprised to find all the references to John Holt, I found my paperback copy in the end and discovered my edition was published in 1969, it was first published in 1964 and was based on observations in USA starting in 1958. I wouldn't argue with his findings but this research has been required reading for educationalists for nearly 50 years!! Things have changed.I am not going to work out the hours per year but if a child is 6 hours in a classroom per day they are 30 hours a week in school and 138 hours a week at home. Add this to about 12 weeks holiday and it is the parent who has by far the largest influence! There are lots of books around about parenting -Sue Palmer's Toxic Childhood springs to mind. Some people have very poor parenting skills and these people are spread across the board-it is not a case of
HE =good parents, School=bad parents.
I have nothing against HE but I just wish, even one of you, could say that some HE parents are not providing a suitable environment for their child. It is a very defensive attitude to resent any criticism or even admit, that in some cases, it might be justified.

AMumInScotland · 16/01/2008 13:43

Erm, I'm pretty sure that I did say some parents do a bad job, and recommended that the OP look into this further with the SIL and MIL. And that if she was genuinely still not comfortable with the situation, the LEA have a duty to investigate any concerns.

SueBaroo · 16/01/2008 13:43

The thing that depresses me is that not one of you will say that this may a be very poor example of HE and the MIL needs help.Is Abbylou supposed to stand by and not help her SIL because MIL must know best?

--------

What precisely were you expecting HE parents to suggest, other than provide links, suggest she offer practical support, and at the last resort, contact the LEA?

You've made it quite clear there are things you disapprove of. You have a certain view of what constitutes an education, and I'm sure that you pursue it with your children. But HE is a very broad spectrum, and I really think that you don't fully appreciate that.

AbbeyA · 16/01/2008 13:57

AMuminScotland, I mentioned that you were the person to say there was a duty to provide an education.
SueBaroo proves my point! I would have liked you to suggest to Abbylou that she may well have cause for concern and give her a bit of support! I get the impression that if a HE provider is suffering from depression and spends days in bed leaving DC to own devices then this is still seen as better for the DC than school!!

AbbeyA · 16/01/2008 13:59

SueBaroo-nowhere on this thread Have I said what I think constitutes an education! I said there should be stimulation, interest and joy! Surely every HE child should get that!!

AMumInScotland · 16/01/2008 14:00

"I just wish, even one of you, could say that some HE parents are not providing a suitable environment for their child"

I did.

AMumInScotland · 16/01/2008 14:03

The OP has been given a range of responses and options here. They have mainly been of the "give her the benefit of the doubt, talk to her, and offer her support" variety.

Would you rather we all, without first hand knowledge of the people or situation, said "Oo isn't it terrible, you should tell the police"?

SueBaroo · 16/01/2008 14:05

And again I'll ask, what support do you think should have been provided beyond links, advice and the last resort suggestion of the LEA?

I think you're being very rude and aggressive yourself, actually, and as a disabled HE parent, with depression, who uses workbooks, doesn't have the opportunity to get out much, and has disapproving relatives, I find your attitude very unhelpful.

AbbeyA · 16/01/2008 14:12

Of course you shouldn't tell the police!!!
If everyone was so helpful why did Abbylou feel that the answers were aggressive? I read it through and I found it very aggressive.There were very few 'talk to her offer her support'-it was more 'mind your own business','you can't possibly tell as an outsider' and 'deschooling takes a long time, so wall to wall TV watching is to be expected.' I haven't seen much kindness, except from AbbyLou who was bending over backwards not to offend anyone. Anyway I am off out now-will put tin hat on before I read the replies!!

AbbeyA · 16/01/2008 14:16

I didn't mean to offend you SueBaroo, I thought it had been pretty much agreed on another thread that workbooks were not what HE was about. This is my whole point-everyone has different styles-no one better, but in Abbylou's post I think she had very real worries that everyone was keen to discredit.