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Original poster

Help me out with some 4 year old's maths please?

31 replies

EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 10:20

Ds1 is not going to be home educated, he starts school in September. However, he is itching to know about numbers, and how they work, and what they look like etc.

He recognises numbers up to 10, so I have made little bits of paper with numbers written on, and am using mini weetabix as counters. I have a plus sign and an equals sign, and a minus sign.

I set the 'sum' up, and get him to count the weetabix over the numbers - and for minusing, I get him to count the weetabix on the first number onto the the second number.

Now, he LOVES this, I certainly wouldn't bother if he was even just neutral, but he is picking it up faster than I can figure out how to tech him, I don't know how to tech him about 2 figure numbers, I susp[ect I am doing the subtracting wrong and will confuse me - does anyone have some experience to add? He seems to have a flair for maths that I don't want to screw up, I am about as mathmatically minded as the average hamster.

OP posts:
Tiggerish · 21/07/2007 10:22

my ds was like this. i bought him an abacus (from elc I think) and you can then explain that 10 counters on the bottom row is the same as 1 on the next row up.

RedLorryYellowLorry · 21/07/2007 10:24

Do you have a number line or number square?

Transparent · 21/07/2007 10:26

yes the abacuses are great.

I would do with him what they at the school,
10 + _ = 5 etc
5 + _ = 7....

then onto subtracting........

pointydog · 21/07/2007 10:27

At that age, I'd just do practical maths activities in the home environment and would not be rushing to introduce mathematical symbols.

BAke, measure, add/subtract while setting table, shopping, etc etc etc. That's the sort of stuff he'll have fewer chances to do when he's at school. He's got years ahead of him for mathematical symbols and language at school.

Tiggerish · 21/07/2007 10:27

number lines are good for sequencing, but don't teach the place value of units, tens, hundreds etc.

pointydog · 21/07/2007 10:28

aaargh!

Do fun practical maths, not the formal school stuff.

DangerousBeans · 21/07/2007 10:28

Agree with Pointydog.

Tiggerish · 21/07/2007 10:29

absolutely pointydog - but some kids really want to learn the "proper" sums stuff.

pointydog · 21/07/2007 10:34

and where do they see all this proper sums stuff at pre-school age?

Original poster
EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 10:35

That's the problem pointydog, I don't know what they do at school, I don't have a clue, and although I could read fluently when I started school I could barely count to 5!

He loves to look at numbers, and draw numbers, and match numbers to amounts, and he learns faster than my raddled brain can keep up. I am just a bit scared of screwing it up.

The abacus idea is great, he has one - how do I word it about the tens and units? he's only 4, I don't want to befuddle him - I sense that although he grasps amounts, he's not grasping numbers, and he really wants to.

Aww, shall I just persuade him to drop the subject until September?

OP posts:
Original poster
EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 10:36

Older children, PD. He wants to do the stuff his olde3r friends do, I think he feels capable if he only know how.

OP posts:
Original poster
EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 10:37

I have to point out, the second he wants to do something more interesting like brumming cars along the radiator I am all encouragement

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pointydog · 21/07/2007 10:44

AT school they will start off with practical concrete examples and very gradually match these to symbols. Research has shown it can be detrimental to introduce mathematical symbols too early. These symbols are part of a whole mathematical language which can be confusing for many.

Not saying it's confusing or detrimental for the children mentioned here. I am talking in broader educational terms.

Maths can quickly become detahced from real life and I just feel there are lots of fun, practical, problem-solving type maths activities that are perfect for the wider, freer home enviroment.

Hulababy · 21/07/2007 10:51

For adding and subtracting DD started by just drawing little circles and counting them, for subtraction crossing some out.

Do missing numbers work: 5 + ? = 10 etc.

To recognise numbers above 10 is just exposure I think. Try up to 20 first. Cut out squares with 1 to 20 on them. Peg them in order on washing line, etc.

DD has an abacus which is great for adding, subtracting and "lots of" (multiplication)

DD likes this website \linkwww.rainforestmaths.com/\Rainforest Maths}

Other maths stuff to cover if he is interested: money recognition, counting in 2s, time (on hour and half past first), shapes, colour, using simple pictograms, etc.

DD also likes doing shared by - think she likes dividing up sweets and chocolate cake, lol

Hulababy · 21/07/2007 10:53

Only symbols DD knows are +, 1 and = She knew these before starting school too. However she knows lots of other mathematical concepts, without the need for sympols. I think the symbols bit can become too formal and regimented if not careful.

hatwoman · 21/07/2007 10:54

I agree. don;t worry about "sums" and symbols and language, teach him, or rather talk to him, what numbers are about. de-mystify it for him.

eg doing adding and subtracting with counters -which you;re already doing - but don;t worry about writing it down or using the "right" language. just talk about it "here's a pile of counters. how many are they?" he counts them, tells you there are 10. ask him to take 5 of them away. how many are left. then play around with them - put the two piles back together, vary the numbers you move about, this way you're teaching adding and subtracting at the same time (they are essentially the same thing). he'll quickly get the idea that if 10 take 7 is 3; then 10 take away 3 is 7; and 7 add 3 is 10; and 3 add 7 is 10.

once he's got the idea of adding and subtracting you cna move to simple multiplcation. again with your piles of counters - start with 2 piles of an equal number. what are 2 lots of 2? then slowly get a bit harder - what are 2 lots of 3? what are 3 lots of 2? again if you do this visually he'll make the links quickly. you'll be giving him the tools to really "get" maths. to move numbers around, play with them, see the connections.

pointydog · 21/07/2007 10:58

g ooutside.

Go for a walk in the woods. How many leaves can you find? From which different trees? Have you found a lot? Put them in groups to make adding up easier (and is in fact the basis for multiplication). Measzure the longest twig you can find. Measure with your hands. Play pooh sticks and time how many seconds to get to the other side.

Make maths fun! You have the whole world to go to, not just a table and a chair to sit at

hatwoman · 21/07/2007 10:59

"de-mystify" it is the wrong phrase - hopefully he is too young for it to have become mystified in the first place, iyswim. what I mean is don't allow it to become something strange, somtheing apart from real life. also use every opportunity to talk to him. dds both had Richard Scarry books which are brilliant for talking about maths. (how many animals on this page? if you took the squirrels away how many would there be?) one of the best pictures was of a block of flats - I used to ask them to count how many floors (8) how many windows on each floor (5) what are 8 lots of 5? etc

Original poster
EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 11:02

Pointydog, I suppose I have made it sound like we sit at a table all day while I teach him by rote

But actually we do all that anyway. he takes a bendy ruler with him to the park and measures things of his own accord - but how do I stop him learning what the numbers on the ruler say? the only way to stop him learning the symbols is to refuse to tell him when he asks. He started using the ruler as a numberline

he is honestly fascinated, I wish he was as fascinated in playing with little people and animals, Ibut I suppose every chil is different.

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Original poster
EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 11:03

However you have added some interesting things that I hadn't thought of doing, thank you.

Thank you to everyone contributing to this thread!

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pointydog · 21/07/2007 11:05

oh yes, tell him teh numbers on the ruler. Numbers aren't symbols, I meant the +, -, x etc.

Kids do love big numbers

Dottydot · 21/07/2007 11:05

Don't whatever you do, teach him that a minute is 60 seconds, and then teach him to count up to 100, 'cos ds1 now counts to 60 whenever I say "in a minute" (which is a lot) and then informs me I've had a minute...

Original poster
EscapeFrom · 21/07/2007 11:08

Oh ok I see, I will sling the plus sign in the bin then!

He likes to put numbers to amounts, until I wrote them down for him he was making them with his fingers, and carrots, and lines of rice etc. he is much happier having them written down.

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hatwoman · 21/07/2007 11:12

oh do answer questions when he asks, and if he wants to write the numbers that's great - but don't make it your own focus - much more important for him to understand the underlying concepts. it sounds like he's doing great!

KerryMumbledore · 21/07/2007 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.