Alfie Kohn on home ed - what do you think he means by this?

[EggyBreadAndBeans]

Hi all

I was amazed earlier in the year when, after visiting Alfie Kohn's website and pursuing the option to e-mail him, he replied . I've had two short replies now, the latter regarding his perspective on home education.

I had thought he'd be pro HE, and as he says, in some contexts he is. However, he's largely in favour of investing energies in sorting state schooling out. I want to better understand what he wrote (especially the bits which I've emboldened, below), but feel I can't e-mail again! And he's written only one HE article, which isn't available online. So, what do you make of what he e-mailed, below?

"As for homeschooling, while I can understand the frustration that leads some people to pull the plug, I regard public schooling [in the American sense] as a vital part of a democracy and would rather work to restructure that institution. I share quite a number of values with a certain contingent of progressive homeschoolers, but I have little in common with the great majority of those who teach their own (who by definition are ...?).

"The more I learn about learning, and the vital role played by collaborative exploration by peers, the more concern I have about removing kids from a school setting. Of course, most classrooms still don't allow kids to learn with and from one another, but that takes us back to the original question of whether we work for change or take our kids [out] and go home."

I'd like to understand Kohn's perspective more. Grateful for your interpretations and elaborations, ladies. Discuss!

Thanks. EBAB

Well it seems obvious that education should be a right for all citizens so they can take part in their democracy in the fullest sense. An illiterate person is unable to access the information they need to make decisions about the society they live in and will never be equal to an educated person in terms of earning capacity. As I understand it, there are a lot of US homeschoolers who are anything but progressive. Religious fundamentalists, for example. I believe it is generally different here. Totally different culture. And yes, studies do show that children learn an awful lot from being around other children at a similar stage of development.

Agree with MuminFife.

What constitutes a progressive home-schooler?

I'm fairly sure we're not, being fundamentalists, and all

No, I don't think teaching children that the world was created in six days and that evolution is a lie, that women are inferior to men, should stay at home and cover their bodies, and that children should be beaten with sticks is particularly progressive.

Will he mind his emails being published like this? [nervous of litigation for MN]

Thankyou Muminfife. I don't really recognize Aloha's definition of 'fundamentalist' to be honest. I mean, it's a nice corn dolly, but most of it isn't, shall we say, fundamental to being a fundie

Yeah, sure we personally hold to a creationist understanding of origins, but we don't teach our kids that evolution is an outright lie, it's just another way of looking at the available facts. The other stuff just isn't true of us - if you're referring to Christian fundamentalism, I know literally no Christians who believe that women are inferior, I'm 100% happy that most people around here cover their bodies, (and I'm flipping sure you'd be glad I cover mine), and I don't 'beat' my children with sticks.

This seems to be the heart of so much opposition to homeschooling - it's ok as long as those people don't do it insert random group to be disapproved of here

I am entirely liberal on the matter - I'm happy that pagans, atheists, goodness me, even ultra liberal Christians are free to educate their children as they see fit, and I think there is a huge and varied pool of knowledge to learn from there.

I liked this line

"By Aloha on Fri 23-Mar-07 18:43:52
No, I don't think teaching children that the world was created in six days and that evolution is a lie, that women are inferior to men, should stay at home and cover their bodies, and that children should be beaten with sticks is particularly progressive. "

Have been away since posting opening post - hence no acknowledgement of responses until now. Thanks for perspectives/discussion. Didn't intend to open up a progressive v. religious fundamentalist home education debate, though I can see that the two extremes could be what Kohn is talking about, particularly in the US.

Good point, Hunker. I posted on here because I thought I shouldn't e-mail Kohn again ... maybe I'll now e-mail a third time just to explain openly about this discussion!

Am interested in the kids-learn-an-awful-lot-from-being-around-peers findings. I would think many home edders would say peers can learn an awful lot of negative stuff from being around each other - particuarly in the traditional classroom context. I'd like to know more about the positive peer-influenced stuff ... which, during the toddler/pre-school years at least, seems pretty lacking IME. Thanks for any links/insights.

Hello, I've just seen this. I totally heart Alfie Kohn. I think this is what he means about state education.

He is of the belief that 2 heads are better than one, that Kyle working on his own is more limited than if he pools resources with Joe and Sunita. Each will have different skills, perspective, and background to bring to the task, and will enrich each other when doing it. That may sound slightly idealistic, but I believe it to be true.

I think also that means that if you are in a class with lots of different children, you osmotically learn about so many different things. Some may not be the things you particularly want your child to learn.... but many will be. And also, you just learn to rub along with these diverse people, and to tolerate differences of opinion and
background. That's pretty democratic, I think.

Actually there is some interesting work showing how empathy develops in children by being around other children. They learn a lot from each other's responses. The responses from adults are not as effective as we tend to be child centric so they dont' learn much about our feelings. With other children, they soon learn if they behave in a way others find unpleasant or dislikeable. It is a good argument for childcare or at least letting children play together in an unhindered and not overly supervised way. ie when Betsy bashes Barney when Barney screams in her face/snatches her toy, Barney learns quickly that Betsy is not happy about it!

Yeh, absolutely Aloha.