The purpose of pre-school, and whether or not to send ds

[EggyBreadAndBeans]

Am I right in thinking that the reasons kids go to pre-school are (a) to give them opportunities to socialise with their peers, and (b) to prepare them for school? And I suppose also (c) to give Mum a break.

Ds has a place to start at our village pre-school in April, which we booked up over a year ago. The thing is ...

Ds doesn't seem to enjoy mixing with his peers that much. He ends up losing his rag (big-time) over toy-sharing, gets frustrated trying to communicate with them, and lately has been asking me to make his two- and three-year-old playdates 'go away' . On the other hand, playing with older kids and adults (which ds gets to do a lot) brings out the absolute best in him, and he loves it. So that brings (a) into question.

Also, we've been looking into home education since ds was about one and of course, if we decide to go down that route, then there's no need to worry about preparing him for school (b).

And we lean towards attachment parenting, so I'm not interested in having ds prised off me in tears in order for him to 'get used' to pre-school.

I feel under pressure to send ds to pre-school - it seems expected either these days, or at least where we live - and yet all of the above begs the question, should we just take ds's name off the list and carry on as we are? If we do this, and decide on conventional schooling, will he settle in OK without pre-school? Thanks.

(Also posted on Pre-school board.)

and you get 5 sessions free once they are 3.

I only ever see one woman having toddlers prised off her on tears at my local preschool, and that poor woman has 2 year old triplet boys. I'd have dosed them with laudanum by now

If I loiter too long around ds1 he tells me to 'Go shopping, Mummy, or go home. I am doing this."

the purpose of pre-school is surely to get rid of your kid and have a break?

I have given my dd totally free choice as to whether she goes to pre-school (just one morning a week) - because I am a bit torn about her going (because I am soft, and because the baby SCREAMS when she is parted from Big Sister and is difficult to entertain ). Anyway she LOVES going. She LOVES me making her a lunchbox and she LOVES the whole experience. She knows that some of the others will be going up to school with her in September.

I really don't like pre-schools because they always seem like they are full of stupid, boisterous, rough ignorant children. But that's probably because I have a rosy-tinted view of my own lovely children. And DD seems to enjoy it nonetheless, even though I would rather she stayed at home and played something nice and quiet with her baby sister while I read the paper.

DS1 was upset at the beginning of term, very upset.

But he adores his teacher now, six short weeks later. I think that's a good thing. But what do I know about children, I'm a full-time WOHM

Custardo - thats what my DH is for

Just a thought on "preparing for school" - this preparation takes as many forms as there are children.

For my ds he is spending a whole year at morning kindy so that in a suitable and supervised environment (but one that is similar enough in structure to school) he can learn to cope with his allergies himself. So his learning plan is to not swap or handle other children's food, to go to 45 "birthday parties" this year (kids go to school on 5th birthday)and not eat party food, or accept sweets or balloons, to apply his own creams and remember to change his clothes when they get wet or dirty.

He's coping with this really well, but we have realised that he is taking all "rules" as seriously as his allergy rules and getting quite bossy at other children who don't listen to the teacher. He thinks something awful may happen if they don't do as she says straight away, and keeps reminding them. If he has done this at school I think he would just have been labelled as "bossy", but we are now working together to get him to see the difference between life and death rules and ones that can be bent.

And the look on ds's face last week when I picked him up from kindy and he said "you simply have to meet my new friend xxxx" and dragged me across the room. he was so pleased he had made his very own friend, using his very own social skills.

that is really nice nearlyfourbob.
i think newborns, babies, toddlers... all are gorgeous, but the thought of them growing up and becoming their-own-little-selves is even more exciting.
possibly even more so with your little man being able to cope with his extra issues.
bless : )

Sorry EBAB, just seen this. Have spent most of last fortnight getting used to small child permanently attached to my boobs .
Well, it'll be no surprise for you to discover that I agree with the HE'ers on this one, however, Dd did go to pre-school/nursery because I agreed with the way it was run, the teaching staff were fantastic, the head of the attached Primary who also oversaw the Nursery was creative and encouraged maximum play and exploration. She did thrive there, but she was very ready-to-go. The kids she moved to Nursery with all went to the playgroup I run and she had 'known' then since she was 18mo.
Ds is a different kettle of fish altogether! Very sociable and articulate little boy, knows his own mind very definitely and will openly argue as to why he should have his own way and not do as he's told, far better than most teenagers imho.
He does not 'do' kids of 3 and under, he cannot communicate effectively with children whose language skills are not better than his, and he appears to find playing with these children incredibly frustrating.
He doesn't like to play with 3yo and under because they don't share, take turns ( all of this noted through the same playgroup Dd attended). He seeks out older children and more elaborate games, conversations beyond 'it's mine' and 'you be daddy'. He does the same level of maths and english as his older sister, so other than socialising with a peer group he doesn't want to play with, what will he learn/ have to gain by going are the questions we are left with. He won't do as he's told, I'm fairly sure of that, he will in all liklihood be bored by the pitch of the activities, can read, so the time spent doing phonics will be a waste and he won't do anything he thinks is too easy for him.
To sum up I suppose I'm in 2 minds whether to send him, I think we will decide in June ready for the September intake, thinking he may change before then. If not, no worries, everything we do 'at home' is similar to a Nursery anyway, but without the other 20 odd kids and at his learning pace.

hey eggy,

ok, up to about 2 weeks ago I would have agreed 100% with the HErs.

However.

ds has recently started at a Steiner kindergarten and he does love it. He is eager to go there. He is most annoyed that he can't go every day.

Of course I don't make him go if he doesn't want to.

It gives me a break and that is, tbh, much needed by me. It also gives his little sister some 1-1 time with me.

The nursery is lovely. Importantly, they have a (nice) parents room where dd and I can hang out for the session.

ds is 3.6 and only just ready, IMO. But he is gettting a lot out of it, I think.

It is entirely play. Bascially, they play for 3 hours, then eat together, do a bit of singing, and go home. Parents can stay for all sessions they want to (in the room or in the parents room). Kids there range in age from 2.5-7, which is actually the same range as at the HE groups locally.

So I am saying

1. The right preschool can be fun for some kids

1. Go with your instinct. You know your child.

1. Ds wasn't ready til 3.5. Dd, aka velcrobaby, I can see not being ready til older, or at all. For some kids, 2 will be too young. I found the key difference for ds was getting a concept of time. He understood that I would be back after xyz had happened and was confident I would be.

ps will mail you sooooon

Eggybread - I am having exactly the same doubts about pre-school & school as you.

We have just moved out of London recently so I that I could get closer to a good primary school. However, although the nearby primary school is better than anything I could get DS into in London, I still have doubts.

I also practice AP and child-led weaning (I don't deliberately follow any books or theories it's more to do with gut instincts for me) and my gut instinct tells me that 6 hours a day at school at age 4 isn't good for the child. I went to school full-time much much later as I was living abroad, so don't really remember being separated from my parents at an early age and my mum was a SAHM.

HOWEVER - I have no idea what this primary school is like and whether DS will enjoy it. I will be enrolling him at the correct time, let him attend and then will see. So giving everything the benefit of the doubt.

There is absolutely no way I would allow DS to attend anything on his own if he tells me he hates it. Even if he can't tell me, I will know from his mood. So really the other aspect of all this for me is ALLOWING him to choose. School isn't just a choice for parents, it also needs to be a choice for children. If he enjoys school, I think it would be extremely selfish of me to pull him out when he is old enough to choose.

The key thing is to have enough good communication with your kids so that they can come to you and tell you when things aren't right.

We have to guide them to be sociable and friendly. My DS is an unbeleivably confident, sociable child at 2.8 yo, but just like yours being an only child he is far far happier with older kids and adults than other toddlers his age. I think this is a normal reaction for a child that has no siblings and spends most of his time with adults.

I think that with time even toddlers who don't seem to like the company of other toddlers can be guided to get on with their peers. I certainly am working on it, although I have read somewhere and was told by someone who was a child psychologist that a child under 4 can't be forced to understand sharing. It comes with good guidance and age.

Hi Fillyjonk - I am thinking of sending DS to my local Steiner at age 3 for just a few hours a couple times a week. Glad to hear you recommend yours

mine is good, yr, but they are very variable

and it utterly depends on the teacher

where are you?

Cambridge

Filly - I went on the web to investigate the Steiner philosophy a few months ago and read some very unsavoury things about some of their schools. In particular I was freaked out that some covertly push some kind of weird Christian cult.

I want DS to be raised in a secular environment as I don't believe in religious practice of any kind, of course if he wants to go off and become a Mullah or Priest or Rabbi when he is 25, that's fine too, want it to be his choice, not that of his school philosphy.

Have you noticed any cultish or weird religious practices at your Steiner ? (sorry for hijack, will start a separate thread on this soon !)

not at mine, but was brought up in said cult (am now staunch atheist)

happy to talk offlist if you want - [email protected]

Thanks Filly - will email you.

Yeh, know what you mean about religious cults, some of my dh family are a bit too religious for my liking and I have been an atheist since I was a teenager

Could it not be that the older kids are more indulgent and babies just don't argue back?
I don't think many pre-schools are terribly formal, if they are that will be part of their marketing so you probably wouldn't have put him on the list in the first place. Might as well give it a try when it's free, he might surprise you and he doesn't have to go everyday. Also you might end up not liking Home Ed after you've tried it (well, you might!)

Apologies for not acknowledging posts sooner ? great to hear some more perspectives. Ds is poorly ? am taking quick break from holding sick bowl.

Grateful for all replies. We'll give pre-school a go, I think, but without expectations. I blindly enrolled ds well over a year ago for the first term he was allowed to go, rather than when I thought he would be ready ... am on a steep attachment/HE learning curve! If ds doesn?t settle/it's too soon, we'll hold off and maybe try again another time ... or maybe not.

Must dash - will reflect more on some of these posts. Enjoy rest of weekend. EBAB

Just taken DS1 out of preschool. I sent him in January, he took about 4 weeks to settle without crying every morning, everyone I know told me I 'had' to get him prepared for school (he's just 4 and goes in September).

He did eventually manage to get something out of it, seemed to grow in confidence in some respects...and lose in others.

He's found it hard to go back after DS2 was born 2 weeks ago. He cried again etc. So I decided, after I had a couple of issues with the preschool anyway, to give it a rest for the rest of the term (only a few weeks left anyway).
He is delighted and I am now utterly convinced that our first few weeks forcing him to cope, were a huge mistake...my instinct was so strong back then not to force it, but I was under immense pressure and I caved in.

Biggest regret of my parenting life, letting him be 'prised off me crying'. How could I???

See how it goes but definitely follow your instinct and your child on it...I'm sure you will. And some do love it, which is great!

"Ds doesn't seem to enjoy mixing with his peers that much. He ends up losing his rag (big-time) over toy-sharing, gets frustrated trying to communicate with them, and lately has been asking me to make his two- and three-year-old playdates 'go away' "

Perhaps this is the sort of thing that preschool can precisely help with, to help him to learn to relate with other children a bit better.

He may or may not settle better withouth preschool, but it is my impression that by opting to not tackle the problem now you may be just delaying it, and mabye, just maybe, even making it a bit more difficult for him.

Sooorry, obviouls I just read the first post!

I was worried about this aspect too, but it doesn't seem to have helped him at all, rather embedded the fear that the others WILL take his stuff to the point where he will get quite aggressive now...I think it is a natural phase which will be grown out of along with the many other antisocial habits of little kids.
Whether he does it at home or in a school setting, he will get there eventually.

All the preschool did was enforce the rules, not make the child understand or accept them...he doesn't stick to 'good' behaviour if it isn't being enforced.